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05 civic ep3 type r cold start noise

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25
Hi, I just bought a ep3 type r about a month ago and on cold starts after it's been sitting over night it makes a rattling noise for about two seconds then it sounds OK.

I have done some research and found it could be a few possible things

1. VTC actuator
2. Timing chain tensioner (Not to sure about this one)
3. Starter motor (Also not to sure if it's that)

The car has done 82k miles and is on the original timing chain as far as im aware. Just had a full service with new oil and filters and still seems to make the noise.

Normally turning the ignition on and off two or three times to let the oil pressure build up makes the noise not so bad but it's still there.

The noise sounds like it's coming from under the rocker cover near the cams that's why i thought it might be the VTC actuator.

Anyone else came across the noise and found a solution?

[video=youtube_share;UVYu4AX6JAU]https://youtu.be/UVYu4AX6JAU[/video]
 
Can you do one from inside the car please? Sounds an odd thing to ask but I've listened to these things start countless times from inside and only a handful from outside.
 
I know this might sound like a noddy question, but what're the oil levels like (and do you know which brand/rating oil is in it)?
 
Oil level is pretty much at the top marker just topped it up as i noticed it was getting low, I put in Shell Helix Ultra Professional AB-L 0W-30 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil ACEA C3.
 
Unless you're running something that requires it then I'm pretty sure 5w 40 is the suggested oil. Running 0w would mean at cold temps it might not be sitting where it ought (freer flowing, therefore may have drained from upper areas), 30 could mean at higher temps it's a little too thin and therefore can't as easily hit the right pressures (less good for VTEC).

I could be wrong (I'm sure someone here will chime in if I am), but I imagine that could have an impact on cold start
 
I have seen most people reccommend 5w40 but the car came with a Honda brochure and they recommend running 0w30, im doing the valve clearances on the weekend anyway to and i'll have a look at the chain and the vtc actuator for peace of mind.

Do you reckon the noise is purely off of running thinner oil? as it made the noise before the oil change but the last owner had no idea what oil was used.

https://gyazo.com/493d76a6fbe7e4c97f1103005a15dfd6
 
0w30 certainly isn't right, no matter what the brochure says. I'd say that noise is not oil weight related and won't change if you put water thin or treacle thick oil in it.

I couldn't tell from the vid if it was starter motor or FUBAR chain tensioner, but they were my first thoughts. I'd expect the chain tensioner fault to stay on a warm start and the starter motor generally won't. Once in a blue moon maybe.
 
Fair enough, just trying to cull from a list of simple/cheap possibilities before we get to something awkwardly expensive (or harder to diagnose without pulling things apart :) ).

Which year is it/how many miles?
 
2005 ep3 civic type r with just over 82,000 miles on it, Has been serviced by Honda up to 40,000 then a few receipts from local garages, I was hoping that the chain and tensioner would be still be alright for a bit as it is pulling really strong in vtec and only makes the noise in the morning after it's been sitting over night.
 
Others (a few forums I've seen so far) seem to suggest the noise is because the chain tensioner is oil-pressure driven and that this is "normal". I'm gonna stick by my "might work to move to 5w/40", but the damage being done to the guide by chain-slap under low pressure and no load for such a short period is probably minimal.
 
Ok cheers guys i've got a 5L bottle of Fuchs TITAN SUPERSYN 5W-40 Fully Synthetic Engine Oil that i'll put in on the weekend while checking the valve clearances and see if it makes any difference.
 
It's usually tensioner or VTC gear. Hard to diagnose without taking it apart or swapping bits.
Easiest method is popping the tensioner cover off and extending the tensioner an extra click if it's not already at full travel. Problem is it's tight round there, if it doesn't resolve the issue you may get away with just swapping the tensioner as it's inexpensive compared to the VTC and pretty simple.

VTC would require the intake cam to come out and replace the VTC gear (hence why trying the tensioner first may be easier). Unsure if unplugging the VTC solenoid before cold startup would have any effect but worth a try I guess.

The starter "sneeze" isn't uncommon but that usually sounds more of a metallic grind than a rattle, a mechanic's stephoscope may help narrow it down before throwing parts at it.
 
Swapped the oil today for some 5W40 and sounds a bit better i'll give it a go tomorrow and see what she sounds like.
 
Checked the valve clearances today and everything was as it should, Chain is still tight so tensioner must be doing it's job and looked at the VTC gear and rotated the chain everything seemed good. Guess it's just one of the noises you live with :)
 
You won't hear the VTC unless you take it out and rattle it and even then it may not rattle in your hand.

Listening again today I'd put money on VTC myself.

For the chain tensioner it's held by a simple spring once cold and drained of oil, if the internal spring is no longer doing it's job properly that's what causes the chain to slack ever so slightly and "bounce" on the guides (usually top one) until it fills with oil pressure. I would certainly be opening the tensioner inspection cover at a minimum and checking to rule it out.

VTC you could live with, but I believe some accords suffered engine damage over time from it, a bad VTC can sometmes be datalogged by checking camcmd and actual cam position but you'd need some kpro variant for that and depends if it's worn completely or just finicky on startup.
 
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