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Thread: Clicking (Not squeaking) Clutch pedal when warm, but not cold

  1. #1
    Rissy's Avatar
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    Default Clicking (Not squeaking) Clutch pedal when warm, but not cold

    Hey folks,

    I'm new to owning my FN2 Type R. Less than two weeks. Ever since I bought it, i've been having a clicking clutch pedal, which seems to only click when the car is warmed up. First thing in the morning, on the way to work, the car is a joy to drive because my clutch pedal behaves itself with no clicking or anything....then in the evening time, on the return journey home, the clutch pedal clicks with every depress all the way home again. Some times I get a single click, and sometimes I get what could be described as more of a multi popping grating sound, but in either case, it's not just a noise, but also a corresponding vibration through the pedal, and into my foot. It's driving me mad.

    To try and better illustrate my issue, I've made a couple of private youtube videos so that perhaps hopefully, someone can give me some ideas as to what it might be and how to fix it. If I need to start thinking about taking the clutch pedal assembly apart and out of the car, I'm looking also for some advice on this. Pointers of best approach or what to be careful of. I'm suspicious that it might be the linkage on the push-rod for the clutch master cylinder where it connects mechanically on to the pedal box, as illustrated in the second video. I bought a spare clutch pedal assembly off E-bay in some hopes of trying to see anything, but I don't think this is making any difference to my efforts, but it is an illustration of how desperate I am to sort this, as it's somewhat ruining my experience of an otherwise great car.

    Thanks in advance for any positive feedback I receive.

    Here are my videos. Enjoy.

    https://youtu.be/dL9vFH-MOjk

    https://youtu.be/XVK1QaKqLNw

  2. #2
    Flashy's Avatar
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    Most report it to be the plastic bushes on the return springs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    Most report it to be the plastic bushes on the return springs
    Yeah I see that, but mine all look good. It's very bizarre.

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    The other reports are to replace the pedal box or master cylinder, you really need to get a mechanic to take a look.
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    R#2- Nighthawk Black FN2 GT, R#1- Satin Silver Prem EP3

  5. #5
    Rissy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flashy View Post
    The other reports are to replace the pedal box or master cylinder, you really need to get a mechanic to take a look.
    I have a spare pedal box. I may dismantle this and see if i can find a suitable replacement for the plastic washers (some people have had them reproduced in brass). I can then use these on my fitted pedal box, but i'll need to be able to disconnect the CMC from it. How is this done without me being able to see the linkage (as illustrated in my first video)?

    If i need to replace the CMC altogether, then i'll buy one from Honda, and I'll attempt to do this myself (need to figure out how to access the fittings and be able to remove them!?). I'm no stranger to doing a lot of work to my own cars myself. I just don't like the idea of opening up the plumbing to the CMC considering it's inside the cabin of the car because DOT 4 is nasty stuff and it's likely to become a messy job at that point! I'm wondering at this point if it's possible to detach the pedal box linkage to the CMC, and unbolt the CMC from the pedal box to allow me to remove the pedal box whilst leaving the CMC in place and leave the hydraulics all intact. Is this possible?

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    Rissy's Avatar
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    I know people have lost interest now, but I haven't, due to me wanting to try and solve this problem, if I can.

    Over the weekend, once the car was all nice and warm, I disassembled my clutch pedal box by varying degrees whilst I knew it was making the noise and vibration.

    First I removed the big spring from the pedal box assembly (2 mins to remove, and 5hrs to reinstate - once i figured out the trick to it!). The clicking remained. This proved the plastic washers holding the spring are not the problem.

    Then I pulled the "R" clip from the clevis pin holding the pedal box to the push rod of the CMC. The clicking changed to a creaking noise. The vibration remained to match the noise. (This was a lot better, but still not perfect)

    Then i pulled the clevis pin out altogether, thus separating the pedal box from the push rod (I held the push rod away from the pedal box whilst continuing to play). The noise and vibration stopped altogether when pressing the pedal up and down. Therefore, the noise and vibration is coming from the CMC, or something further upstream towards the gear box end (I don't suspect it to be anything else beyond the CMC, as the pipework doesn't have any moving parts, and the slave cylinder assembly is isolated from the cabin of the car by the section of flexihose which joins the body work mounted hard line and the gearbox mounted hard line.

    I've since put the whole lot back together again, except this time, I left the "R" clip off the clevis pin, and instead, replaced it with a small split pin to stop it from extracting. This has helped a bit, and i'm mostly exhibiting a creak rather than a click now.

    I then went about doing a hydraulic fluid change on the clutch assembly, assisted by my lovely girlfriend assistant to see if new fluid would do the trick for the remaining noise. It didn't. Couldn't do any harm changing it though, right.

    I'm next going to try replacing the 8mm diameter clevis pin with a narrower one instead. I've ordered an imperial diameter one, which should allow for a bit more "wobble" in the pin assembly, and also a 6mm diameter one (which i think will be too narrow myself, but i'll try if i need to). My hopes are that this "wobble" allows a bit more of a relaxed push for the movement of the rod, and keeps whatever it is from straining with every depress of the clutch pedal. If this doesn't work, then it's a clutch master cylinder off job, and continue the analysis from there. I'd like to unbolt the clevis from the end of the push rod so that I can adjust that out, but i'm having difficulty getting a spanner in there due to tightness of the region, so i fear this little operation will require me to remove the CMC altogether too (ball ache!).

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    That sounds like a hell of a job, I don't envy you

    I hope you find a (in the end) simple solution you can share, some things are just too annoying to leave.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike.h View Post
    That sounds like a hell of a job, I don't envy you

    I hope you find a (in the end) simple solution you can share, some things are just too annoying to leave.
    Thank you, me too. I fear it'll not be easy though. Right now it looks like it will probably be a CMC issue.

    Right now, i'm wondering if it's an angle of attack issue for the push rod into the cylinder due to the weird design of mounting the CMC above the pedal box instead of the usual position of through the bulkhead into the engine bay (this is of course the design because of the size of the engine and the relative size of the teeny tiny little engine bay to accommodate the engine and all the ancillaries.).
    You just know that with this design, the relative angle of the push rod going into the cylinder as you depress the pedal MUST be changing. The question is, how much by, and is it causing any straining type issue which bring about this issue. A dead give away of stress inside the cylinder due to this issue will be exhibited by an obvious amount of wear appearing inside the bore in a particular location, or locations. It's for this reason I want to be able to loosen off the nut holding the clevis onto the push rod so that I can lengthen or shorten the rod and see how each direction of change affects the angle of the push rod relative to the bore of the cylinder.
    If it's this, then there's not much anyone can do to fix it without a massive re-design of the whole assembly, meaning you'll probably just have to suck it up and come to terms with the car eating through CMC's all the time. (annoying! and unforgivable for Honda!)

    The other thing i'm considering is that it may be the return spring inside the cylinder. If it's too long, or being squeezed too much, then this may be causing the noise from inside the cylinder (clicking or "crunching" of the spring). This could be why it only happens when warmer rather than cooler (the spring expanding inside the bore with thermal expansion of the fluid heating up inside the system as the engine heats up etc)

    I have an old second hand CMC coming my way from Ebay. I'll be able to have a play with that on my spare pedal box in my house, and i'll be able to assess better rather than trying to do it on the car. It also gives me more of an appreciation of what i'm up against for mess limitation when removing mine from the car....eventually.

    I'll continue to report back as and when I complete each stage of my investigation (for those who may still be interested )

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    This, possibly? click.jpg
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  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike.h View Post
    This, possibly? click.jpg
    Ooooh. Interesting! Where did you find that!?

    I'm not exactly sure what the statement "has insufficient clearance between the piston and the push rod" actually means. There's potential adjustment of the push rod by way of the threaded end where the clevis screws on to it. This gives you a measure of adjustment!?

    Is this bulletin saying that the corrective action is to replace the CMC with a replacement model CMC of part number "46920-SNA-A03", or are they suggesting taking the piston out of this cylinder part number and putting it into the original cylinder? (Why mention O-ring, seal and snap pin if not?) - is this what part number "46920-S7A-A04" is? (I can't see a picture of it being a piston assembly on the internet)

    I'm asking because if you look at a picture of it on the internet, it looks nothing like the original part number(s) (i've found more than one!?) of "46920-SMG-X91", "46920-SMG-X92", "46920-SMG-X93", "46920-SMG-X94" and even "46920-SMG-X95" on COX MOTOR PARTS website!?

    This is a picture of "46920-SNA-A03":

    https://images.app.goo.gl/wEntHR9Cs4h17Xva8

    This is a picture of one of the others i mentioned above (currently fitted to the car):

    https://images.app.goo.gl/pKB7QEMjv7RwRhGe6

    There's no way that I can see how you'd be able to fit the whole replacement CMC part number. It simply wouldn't fit the pedal box!?
    Last edited by Rissy; 16-04-2019 at 07:47 AM.

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