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EP3 2019 forced induction choices

Messages
175
Chaps I said I wouldn't do it but really want some boost for the EP3. I'm not new to Honda turbo's having helped mates build old B series EG's and EK's. I never did get a chance to boost my old Jordan even though I had started collecting parts for the build (at one point I had CP pistons, Eagle rods, Skunk2 valvetrain, a Quaife ATB, intercooler, charge piping, manifold and Tial wastegate) but alas had to sell the car and parts. Now that I have a pretty mint EP3 with low miles the temptation for boost is back again. If I do go for this it will be on a daily driven car and 300hp is the target power level.

So far I have narrowed it down to:

-DIY turbo kit, sourcing only quality parts
-TTS 'Sport' Rotrex non-intercooled supercharger
-Wait for CPL's new supercharger to be released
-Look for a JRSC (although the chance of finding a good one is slim)

As always budget would be an issue so without compromising too much quality I would try and buy smart and do most of the install myself.

@Loxy I know you have had the TTS 'Sport' kit. Other than the horror stories of them falling apart what was your experience?
 
@Loxy I know you have had the TTS 'Sport' kit. Other than the horror stories of them falling apart what was your experience?

The boost pipe to the inlet manifold blew off mine. Jubilee clips aren't up to the job, so mikalor clamps are a must for it.

My traction fluid pot randomly snapped off it's brackets. Christ knows why I popped the bonnet on the works car park and noticed it. It must have been a 6th sense. Anyway caught it before the impeller imploded into my cylinder head, and zip tied it into place.

After that I had the feeling it was only a matter of time before I was third time unlucky and decided to get the kit taken off.

When it was working though it was a giggle. It could easily keep up with motorbikes. E92 M3 got a shock on a rolling start. They do make the car shift.

Buy some decent front tyres...

I went from 28mpg average to 23mpg, but I think that was due to being right foot happy after it was fitted. I got 35mpg on the run to and back from JAE that year.

If they were more reliable, I'd recommend them more. Comptech or Jackson Racing, Eaton type chargers would be a better bet if I was to do it again, but they need new bearings quite often so neither is perfect.
 
The boost pipe to the inlet manifold blew off mine. Jubilee clips aren't up to the job, so mikalor clamps are a must for it.

My traction fluid pot randomly snapped off it's brackets. Christ knows why I popped the bonnet on the works car park and noticed it. It must have been a 6th sense. Anyway caught it before the impeller imploded into my cylinder head, and zip tied it into place.

After that I had the feeling it was only a matter of time before I was third time unlucky and decided to get the kit taken off.

When it was working though it was a giggle. It could easily keep up with motorbikes. E92 M3 got a shock on a rolling start. They do make the car shift.

Buy some decent front tyres...

I went from 28mpg average to 23mpg, but I think that was due to being right foot happy after it was fitted. I got 35mpg on the run to and back from JAE that year.

If they were more reliable, I'd recommend them more. Comptech or Jackson Racing, Eaton type chargers would be a better bet if I was to do it again, but they need new bearings quite often so neither is perfect.

Loxy thanks for the detailed write up of your experience. Those problems you mentioned are indeed very worrying and certainly not what I would expect of a supercharger system. On the plus side the increased performance sounds epic and certainly what I would want. I love the sound and instant torque of the roots type positive displacement however JRSC are old and non-existent now. There are other options to explore... which leads me to the below
 
This was released late in 2017.

Hello Kryten. It was indeed however when I inquired a week ago I was told by CPL they do not sell this most recent kit anymore and are currently developing a new kit to replace this - unsure what the changes or improvements are, but they couldn't give me any more details or prices currently.
 
Hello Kryten. It was indeed however when I inquired a week ago I was told by CPL they do not sell this most recent kit anymore and are currently developing a new kit to replace this - unsure what the changes or improvements are, but they couldn't give me any more details or prices currently.

Interesting, didn't know this but haven't spoken to Guy for 6 months.
I'd guess it's an evolution in design rather than revolution, mine was customer car #1 with the original - 345hp with exhaust manifold and 2.5" zorst, approx 370 with water meth and 3" pipe with conservative map, 9 pound boost. That had plenty of power overhead with pulley sizes as the Sprintex charger was seriously underspun. Nowt wrong with that.
I'll keep an eye out for the updated version.
 
Aah excellent to hear that. What was your experience of the charger? I imagine at that power level it shifted! How would you describe it?
 
Aah excellent to hear that. What was your experience of the charger? I imagine at that power level it shifted! How would you describe it?

I'd describe it as bloody mental. To be fair it was perfectly driveable and civilised, on an otherwise standard car other than the whine of the charger you wouldn't know it was there until booting it.
My car was setup for sheer speed with little in the way of comforts, part stripped with buckets, coilovers, aircon removed etc so weighed a lot less. It also had an LSD and the Hondata traction control which made a big difference, it was like a computer game - you could pretty much just floor it and the car was pretty much unstickable.
It made mincemeat of any Evo, RS, AMG, Golf R that came along. The only thing it never did in a straight line, but equaled, was a new TT RS but that was when running the lower power map.

The idea was to get it into a state where it was going to have a bottom end rebuild to be stronger and then up the boost. In theory it should then have easily made well over 400hp, even more with chargecooling.
Unfortunately the missus dropped a sprog and I had to sell it for something a little more convenient, though it went back to the previous owner and ran well up until last week when he sold it on to a gentleman in Scotland. I understand it made the 385 mile journey with no issues.

It never failed me on the road, however I did note two minor issues with it. Firstly the orientation of the charger - almost vertical compared to the usual horizontal position these are usually in - meant the input shaft seal was always slightly running in the gearcase oil. The level never dropped but it would ever so slightly weep from the seal. Fitting a vented fill plug to play with the pressure improved it a little. It was mentioned however that my car was the only one to have this problem.
The other issue was a brief hesitation when throttling on from trailing to part throttle around 2.5 to 3k. CPL didn't seem to be able to tune it out and reckoned it was an intake resonance issue. When I looked at the data logs I noticed it happened when it went from closed loop fueling to open loop, so I suggested we lower the MAP kpa switchover value to see if that made it better, which we never got around to doing. Guy did mention that most of the cars subsequently converted had the same issue, apart from one which was running in constant open loop so kinda backed my theory up.
It didn't always do it and usually the revs never dropped below 3k in normal driving conditions anyway so it never really caused a problem.

Perhaps one or both of these issues have been resolved in version #2.

Overall I'd highly recommend it though as usual make sure everything like tyres, brakes etc are up to scratch. It doesn't have the instant torque hit of a turbo but it'll still tie a standard car in knots unless you're careful.
It'll also easily surpass your 300hp target and does deliver the 350hp (with supporting mods) out of the box easily, thanks to being a newer twin screw charger instead of the old roots type like the JRSC. Much more efficient and much lower boost air temps and heat soak.
 
Mate you’re a legend. I couldn’t have asked for a better description of your experience. The charger seems to sound exactly what I want and has made me even keener on the idea. From my past experiences of boosted VTEC’s I know how quickly they pick up speed and I can only imagine what yours must have felt like. I’ve not come across any other CPL converted EP3s. Would be good to see one in action. Hopefully they’ve sorted the aforementioned issues out in version 2 of the kit.

Thank you for taking the time out to write up your experience with the kit. It was enjoyable to read and very informative.
 
Hi, no probs at all. Agreed it's difficult to find info on it as still a rare conversion, I've not seen another in the flesh.
It's an under-rated option and it's a shame not more Honda owners have gone for it, I'm sure they would having driven one. It addresses a lot of the complexity, reliability and performance issues suffered by turbos, Rotrex and JRSC kits.
I think there are quite a few Ariels and Lotus' with a CPL supplied kit about.

Mine is the one in the CPL video on youtube before I did more to it. I've kept all my notes and reference pics so if you need to know any more let me know and I'll be happy to help. You might find some pics looking at my previous posts.

If we're lucky the new owner might turn up on here!
 
I've seen the video of yours! Car looked very clean too! I noticed the CPL kit was a lot more expensive than the other offerings out there. Will have to wait and see what pricing is like on the new ones.
 
I noticed the CPL kit was a lot more expensive than the other offerings out there.

Nah not really, the Rotrex DIY kit seems to be 3.5-5k depending on spec, TDI want 8k fitted for the basic turbo kit. Approx 6k fitted for the CPL SC is quite competitive.
 
I've had both supercharger and turbo on my EP3. The Rotrex Race SC and a custom TDI North turbo build. In my opinion a turbo is the better option when it comes to FI. Although in most cases it is more expensive, but it's just better. A SC is pretty much as it comes, it builds power as the engine revs, so you only reach peak power right at the top of the rev range, a turbo is much more instant. Also with a turbo it is so much more manageable than a SC. I had a KPro3, which is quite outdated these days, but even with that, I had a laptop on the passenger seat and I could change the map, change the boost, it was completely changeable depending on my needs. Driving around town, load a "slow" map and potter about, go to santa pod and load the fast map, getting wheelspin in 4th gear, pull over and change the setting, no more wheelspin. It's just massively more variable. With a SC to change anything you have to change the pulleys.

Also the reason I swapped the SC for the turbo was I got bored of it. The SC didn't really have the drama I expected, it sounded nice, but it didn't excite me. The turbo felt better, it literally forced you in your seat as soon as you put your foot down.

That's my honest opinion of the SC - turbo.
 
I'm running a non intercooled rotrex ep3 have the kit for upgrade but tbh at 320/330bhp it's a weapon already and I think if it had more power would probably be less usable day to day
 
Thanks all for your replies. They’re massively appreciated. It’s always good to hear of first hand experiences and genuine reviews of a product and setup.

I would go for turbo if money was no object. Sadly it is currently. I’m swaying towards a non-intercooled rotrex to be honest as that power level is plenty on the road and as long as midrange torque is improved over stock then would make for a decent daily.

@K20 Supercharged. How long have you been running this? What exhaust and other changes to the car? Is the performance difference night and day over stock? Thanks
 
Have a read through my build thread, there is loads of info on the Intercooler Rotrex I was running on there, along with issues and maps etc. I updated with the negatives and positives before I went turbo.
 
Hi Tom I’ll definitely have a look. Due to budget constraints I was looking at the non-intercooled version although common sense tells me forced induction should always have the charge cooled. The basic TTS kit is about £3k. I’m sure I could piece together a turbo kit for that much. Sidewinder manifold, T3 framed turbo, custom downpipe, universals intercooler, mock up charge pipes myself, use an internal wastegate and pick up some bigger injectors and a pump. Oil lines not too expensive. After that’s it’s a tune.
 
@K20 Supercharged. How long have you been running this? What exhaust and other changes to the car? Is the performance difference night and day over stock? Thanks


Tons of mods full 4 branch with sports cat BC coilovers,stage 2 organic clutch m sport LSD Very different car over standard how I can explain it over other fast cars I drive the civic drives more like a bike now i.e instant power

Rolling from 50+ I can pull 4/5 car lengths on a 360bhp golf R
 
Tons of mods full 4 branch with sports cat BC coilovers,stage 2 organic clutch m sport LSD Very different car over standard how I can explain it over other fast cars I drive the civic drives more like a bike now i.e instant power

Rolling from 50+ I can pull 4/5 car lengths on a 360bhp golf R

Nice. One of my considerations is to keep the car as quiet, legal and stock looking as possible so wanted to keep a stock header with cat. Also as it's a daily driver coilovers and heavy clutch will kill me. This is why I'm swaying towards a Stage 1 rotrex, or piece together a 'mild' streetable turbo kit.
 
Nice. One of my considerations is to keep the car as quiet, legal and stock looking as possible so wanted to keep a stock header with cat. Also as it's a daily driver coilovers and heavy clutch will kill me. This is why I'm swaying towards a Stage 1 rotrex, or piece together a 'mild' streetable turbo kit.

Advantage of the setup I have is no intercooler, exhaust not too loud and zero superchager whine
 
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