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Guide to the Gruppe M - please read before posting!

Chris.

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Costing a hefty £500, the Gruppe M has been hailed as the best Induction Kit for the CTR. It is constructed really well and gives prooven gains both on the Dyno and on Track.

The kit sucks in air where the bonnet meets the windscreen. The scoop channels air into the filter housing and also stops excess water from entering. Should any water enter the housing there is a drainaige hole at the bottom of the carbon fibre housing allowing water to get out.

Dyno graphs show that the increase in torque is excellent, also BHP. The dip in BHP during the VTEC changeover point seen on standard kits and some after market kits is almost completely removed with the Gruppe M.

The Gruppe M uses a cotton K&N filter, which has the usual K&N 1,000,000 mile guarantee. I would reccomend cleaning the filter with cleaning oil and excess dirt/insects be removed with a hoover every 500-1000 miles. neglect of the filter will cost you £100 for a new one from www.gruppemeurope.com

Even though the perfomance increase from this kit is exceptional, there are compications with respect to fitting. Namely the scuttle panel (the bit of plastic where the scoop attaches to, also known as the Cowl).

Gruppe M supply a replacement scuttle panel with the kit. These however have a bad fit, and can sit as much as 1 to 2 mm away from the window, rattle during accelaration and left unmodified are a pain in the butt. The colour match is also not 100% perfect. However a bit of silicone and some elbow grease will secure a good fit, and you can also spray it like I did to get a better colour match. You may still get the odd vibration doing it this way though. Another problem is that there is no where to attach the rubber weather strip too. Using this panel will mean you have to remove the scoop when ever you wish to open the bonnet unless you shave the scoop back a few mm.

The second option is to cut into the original Scuttle panel on the car, drill some holes for the scoop to sit on and use this. It's a long way around but you end up with a much better fit. This is my current project for my car. Details on this are below.

A replacement panel (providing you want to return the car to stock for selling etc) will cost you about 40 quid from your dealer, or do what I did and pick one up for 2 quid from you local scrappie providing they have some CTR's in.

Here is a pick of the kit using Gruppe M's replacement panel:

gruppem.jpg


Lets get started on how to "bodge" the OEM panel. First off you need to cut into it using a hacksaw or similar item. You can use the Gruppe M panel for guidance on where to cut.

This however leaves a massive hole at the back where the neck of the filter sits. This is how we get around it:

Using the new Gruppe M Cowl as a guide tape off the piece you want to remove from the "old" plastic cowl so that if the saw slips you don't mark the plastic:

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A hack saw blade can be used to remove the unwanted peice.

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Next you need to tape up the hole from the top side:

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Then turn over the cowl and using anything rough like sand paper etc make deep marks around the egde of the hole which you cut:

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Use some wire mesh and bend and cut to size so it fits around the hole:

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Mix up some P40 and cover the mesh and the marks in the plastic, have about a 10mm covering. Then let it dry.

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Once dry remove the tape exposing the mesh but keep the rest of the tape on.

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Then mix up some P38 body filler and cover the mesh from the top side and let it dry, try to get it into shape first time because you will have to sand it down to shape and refill any gaps which takes time.

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Then cover up all exposed plastic and prime and spray black.

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Once you have sprayed a few coats of paint and let it dry, fit it back on to the car.

The scoop will have to be shaven back a few mm. If you look at it from the side you can see where it is designed to fit over the bonnet a few mm. The point where it starts to come out is the point where you need to shave it back in line with.

Set the scoop over the hole and open and close the bonnet, play with it until the scoop doesn't touch the edge of the bonnet. Now mark and drill the holes and use the plastic screw's that comes in the kit to fix it to the scoop.

Re-fit the rubber weather strip to both sides of the cowl to keep water out of the engine bay, it's also a good idea to put a little bit of primer and matt black paint on the ends of the rubber weather strip because when you cut it to length you expose the metal strip inside which will rust.

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Finally we have the finished article. A professional finish, and a Gruppe M that sits perfectly and does not vibrate.

Of course you don't have to do all this work, buy it is very much worth it IMO.

I hope this info helps. It seems like a lot of work - but bear in mind that this it is the absoloute best avaliable for performance gains.

To buy this kit you either have to find one second hand - which I might add are like gold dust, or you can order through www.gruppemeurope.com

This is the only place to order this kit from now in Europe.

Quick point also worth remembering - this system WILL NOT FIT a LHD CTR.

Pictures and guide on the cowl ceortesy of "ourman".



Here are Gruppe M Fitting Instructions for anyone who may need them.....

GruppeMFittingInstructions1.jpg


GruppeMFittingInstructions2.jpg



How much power will it make over stock?

Here is a dyno graph showing the difference.

RRResult7.jpg
 
I didn't fill it in mate. Mine's looking just like yours and I've had no problems.

But you might get some water ingress behind the panel.
 
HASNIC said:
MilanoChris said:
I would reccomend cleaning the filter with cleaning oil and excess dirt/insects be removed with a hoover every 500-1000 miles.

Sorry, I thought you was referring to the area behind the scuttle panel.

As for the filter, I give mine a good clean every 500-1000 miles and I use the oil overy 3000.

Best to keep on top of it as the replacement is a tad expensive.
 
The GruppeM fitting guide makes mention of cutting 50-60mm of the supplied "blow hose" (the red one) and inserting the L-piece into both pieces - with the 50-60mm bit of hose going into the engine intake, and the rest going into the GruppeM assembly.

From the pictures I've seen it doesn't look like anyone bothers to do this? From what I can tell people just seem to run the red hose from the GruppeM adaptor straight into the engine (replacing the OEM hose).

Is that right? Also is this filler stuff something a complete novice could do, and if I wasn't intending to fill it - i.e. just hacksaw the hole out of my existing scuttle panel - would I lose anything just using the one GruppeM supply?
 
Durzel said:
The GruppeM fitting guide makes mention of cutting 50-60mm of the supplied "blow hose" (the red one) and inserting the L-piece into both pieces - with the 50-60mm bit of hose going into the engine intake, and the rest going into the GruppeM assembly.

From the pictures I've seen it doesn't look like anyone bothers to do this? From what I can tell people just seem to run the red hose from the GruppeM adaptor straight into the engine (replacing the OEM hose).

Is that right? Also is this filler stuff something a complete novice could do, and if I wasn't intending to fill it - i.e. just hacksaw the hole out of my existing scuttle panel - would I lose anything just using the one GruppeM supply?

I don't have the original hose anymore, I've got some BMW radiator hose on mine. As long as it stays in a position where it will not kink then it's no problem.

As for the scuttle panel, by all means use the Gruppe M one, you'll just have to secure it down properly.
 
Thanks :)

I think I'll use the GruppeM one to get me up and running, and while the OEM one is off the car I'll measure it up and chop/fill it as per the instructions in this thread over a period of a few days.

Had both scuttle panels replaced today under warranty (they weren't flush) and the passenger side one isn't even flush with the windscreen! Crap quality :(
 
Si the the cowel/scoop thingy that causes the problems with the Gruppe M? Would a Stainless steel/titanium make things better? As well as looking good. If so I might be able to get these made......
 
Harvey said:
Si the the cowel/scoop thingy that causes the problems with the Gruppe M? Would a Stainless steel/titanium make things better? As well as looking good. If so I might be able to get these made......
It's the scuttle panel really that's the problem.

The GruppeM one is reputed to be a bad fit, and is gloss black (so it won't match the drivers side one). Cutting/filling the standard one requires a measure of technical ability above just installing the air filter.

If you were going to offer a titanium/stainless steel alternative it would either have to be in two pieces (so that it doesn't look out of place), or a single piece that spans the whole windscreen, with the appropriate GruppeM recess in.

Not sure the reasons Honda splits the scuttle panel into two parts, maybe theres some technical reason for it?

Also while Im on the subject - the GruppeM kit comes with a short bit of foam which looks like its some kind of vibration stopper or something. The installation sheet mentions it in the parts list, but it doesn't say anywhere what you need to do with it? Am I right in thinking it goes between the bracket and the heat shield to stop vibrations?
 
Can someone post the correct CamLock type quick release bolts for the GruppeM pls?

I thought it was somewhere on here recently, but can't find it again :(
 
Nice write-up Chris...should answer a lot of questions !! :wink: :wink:

Looks sweet from the outside....also one look tells people you've a GruppeM under the bonnet !!
 
Is It worth it?? AEM cai vs Gruppe M

Hi there, i realise that the Gruppe M is the balls, however £500 is not, with the AEM cai being around £240 is it worth forking out an extra £260? please advise....
 
You can get the AEM CAI new for £180. Personally I have the CAI and I am very happy with it, it also only produces a few BHP less than the gruppe M. However with the gruppe M you wont have the fear of hydrolock…..
 
Re: Is It worth it?? AEM cai vs Gruppe M

PhunkmasterD said:
Is hydrolock really common and is it what it think it is?

Not really but there is always a risk (i've had no problems)

At the end of the day these are the two best systems IMO. The AEM is the cheap and cheerful way of getting max gains, however you have to live with the hydrolock chance. and a great big hole in the engine bay.

The gruppe M has no drawbacks (maybe fitting issues) and gives the best gains (2-3 more than AEM) looks awsome in the engine bay and makes a crazy noise.
 
Ok cool, well crazy noise sounds great, as do the lack of draw backs, plus my CTR looks like it used to have one as the scuttle pannel is already cut, where should i look to get one (Gruppe M), obviously cheaper the better....any ideas?
 
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