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Loxy's Type R #5 - '65 BSB FK2 GT - The car that never was

In before , bored with BMW wish I had gone for the civic.

Posted this on another forum this morning:

I can talk myself in or out of either car and that is my dilemma.

I live in the Honda world, I own and run type-r-owners.co.uk and go to a few meets every year. I won't ever get away from this car, so it's not like I can just say to myself, "Forget it and move on."

I want the BMW. For what you use a car for 90% of the time, the mundane stuck in traffic or at the very least stuck behind someone in town, it is fantastic at. When the mood takes you, you can whack it into manual and Sport+ and it will crack 62 in 4.9 seconds and 100 in 10.9 and have a right hoon down some country lanes with an exhaust crackling behind you and a straight six singing in front of you. It feels every bit as special as the Civic, just from a different perspective.

Equally that country lane drive will be great in the Civic. I'm sure you will get home 30 seconds quicker in the Civic, and that VXR will be an even smaller dot in your rear view mirror. However when I drove the car again the other day, the suspension is compliant for a Honda, but it's not the best I've experienced. The car twitches about on uneven surfaces and the gearbox was notchy in 1st and 2nd when cold, dragging into gear on downshifts from 3rd. You can't use +R mode to sharpen up the throttle response and weight the steering without stiffening the dampers which is a crying shame. I can't get out of the drivers seat without the steering wheel pinching my thigh to the bolster of the seat. It's impossible without moving the steering wheel up every time I get out. It's the sort of car that you start to dislike when you're tired at the end of the day and you just want to get home from work quickly with the minimal amount of fuss.

The Civic comes with Nav, front and rear sensors, reverse camera, lane departure warning, headlight assist, auto wipers and headlights, auto dimming mirror, active city stop, blind spot warning etc. Very well spec'd. I've spec'd 95% of that plus heated seats, adaptive suspension, the ZF8 gearbox and adaptive headlights on the BMW and it is still £1,500 cheaper than the Civic after I've haggled discount from the dealer (and yes it is in writing), so I've spec'd some additional winter wheels and tyres too to bring it up to the same price. Even the 5 year service pack on the BMW is £55 cheaper.

The Civic looks like a car your 4 year old would draw which in one hand is great look at it, it is every petrol head's dream! but then again do you want a car that looks like your 4 year old would draw, it's all angles and silly red stripes and gaudy black wheels that look lost in the arches. You get people following you home, driving past your house looking at the car. "Lads" hanging out of the passenger window of Ford Transits shouting, "Mate, mate! Is that the new Civic? What's it like to drive?" Oh and the Corsa VXR boys, don't get me started on the Corsa VXR boys, that no matter what time of day, whether you've got the wife and kid in the car or not, think that sitting inches off your bumper is going to make you give them that race they want through the 30 limit dual carriage way into town. Pfft. Been there and done that with the FD2. It's fun at first but gets tiring quickly.

Like I said I can go on and argue for either. I'm sorry if I've pee'vd anyone off with the above. I'm waiting for the, "but you need to own one," comments. I've had enough cars over the past few years to know what it is all about.

I'm not saying I don't want the Civic, far from it. If I was told it will turn up even for my original delivery date (a month later than my last date) I would probably take it, but the people who are making the car can't tell me when it will come and they can't even say it will be this year, so the faith in the dealer's assurances have gone.

The rumours on what the delay is haven't helped. If it is valves that are dropping, so they are having to re-build all of the heads on the Ohio engined cars, it is great that they've spotted it and are rectifying it, but that engine will always now be inferior in my mind. Do I want the engine that had to be fixed before I got it. What else is wrong with it? Are the piston crowns going to start cracking in 50k now etc. etc.? If it is genuinely parts that they are waiting for, then that isn't good. They are only making 4,000 cars. What faith can you have that they will be able to support the car with spare parts going forward over the next say 5-10 years, if they can't get enough bits together now to build the car in the first place. So that is a big one for me. Will any sort of small prang mean a write off? You bend a suspension arm, and you are off the road for 6 months while the part comes in? Like the M200, they just stop selling the alloys for it?

I just can't make up my mind. Honda yesterday saying that they just can't tell me when it would be ready, or what was holding up production very nearly made the decision for me. I've heard of cars being built and sat there unable to be delivered because they are waiting on being finished, which rings true for both the parts issue or the engine work.

My dealer is asking whether Honda will be providing any sort of compensation for mugging me about. He rang them yesterday morning and did not get a call back at close of business yesterday. I do feel sorry for him I do, and we use that dealership for the wife's Civic, so I can't entirely burn my bridges with that dealership, nor do I want to as the service department is very good.

While I've just been re-reading and tweaking this, the wife rung me and told me to get the BMW. She's making the decision for me. :lol:

Meh. Let's see which dealer rings me first...
 
It's like a very, very, very, very abridged Danga thread. :lol:

Well it speaks volumes when the owner of Type R Owners shies away from the new Type R. Now I say that not as a mark of the specific man, but as a general statement that even the most hardcore of Honda enthusiasts feels let down by a once trusted brand and marque.

Having read your post above, I can completely sympathise and understand. It's no small purchase, and the sales manager had an impossible task of keeping your business in the face of BMW. They were able to provide a comperable or better product with a more confidence inspiring service. Faced with parting with that sort of money, I think I probably would have gone a similar route. Or bought a pre-loved 911. :)
 
Completely understandable and can't blame you one bit due to the service you have received. You wonder now whether it was in the previous companies interest in the end.

It is a proper shame that Honda cannot get their service to match the pedigree of the car.. It really is.
 
It's like a very, very, very, very abridged Danga thread. :lol:

Sod off! He's had more cars than I've had hot dinners lol. Think he had like 15 of them between the Civic and Audi lol.


Good choice though, John. I would've done the same. I don't like uncertainty, especially when £32k+ is involved. I'm sure you'll be happy with your choice. Not sure what the forum odds are on you having a thread titled "I've shítcanned the BMW" before April :lol:
 
Dear me John, what a rollercoaster mate, surprised you haven't driven yourself mad over the past week or two.

Its disappointing that the Type R purchase didn't turn out as expected, especially taking into account all the hype and how excited you were after the initial test drive, what a shame Honda have let you down from a customer care point of view though and none of them seem to know whats going on, or at least want to let you know whats going on.

Appreciate they will want to keep any issues as under wraps as possible, but when people have paid deposits and have been given delivery dates its just not good enough.

The BMW is a cracking car John and to be honest from the way your posts have been written the last few days you sound more excited about the prospect of owning the 135i as opposed to the new Type R, build quality of the BMW's are another level everything feels so much more solid and better quality materials, we obviously were drinking the same beer at JAE haha
 
I've got winter wheels and tyres in the package Des. I'll get the car delivered on them! ;) :lol:
 
I bought my S2000 in the winter. It didn't move when the snows came.
Me and the wife got the train up to Scotland for Christmas instead :)

edit: Just remembered. The clutch was on its way out too. Might have had something to do the the train decision :whistle
 
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It's not too late to give honda a call ..

037d2333eb509524c21420d907f10feb.jpg
 
As I've just said on Facebook, I'm not surprised.
I do feel for you in a way, that you've been so badly let down by Honda.

I think you have hit the nail on the head in your post in regards to potential future engine parts failures and and duration on how long they would support the car in the future.

If it was my money I would have gone for this

bd490eb1aea0be8699864dc9007d5e8b.jpg


In that colour too
 
As I've just said on Facebook, I'm not surprised.
I do feel for you in a way, that you've been so badly let down by Honda.

I think you have hit the nail on the head in your post in regards to potential future engine parts failures and and duration on how long they would support the car in the future.

If it was my money I would have gone for this

bd490eb1aea0be8699864dc9007d5e8b.jpg


In that colour too

I like that.
 
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