which coilovers

ive got an fn2. what experiences have you had with coilovers? fitting,performance, longevity, price,quality etc. thinking about getting some fitted as its real hard to get after market dampers,as I wanted to keep my progressive springs for a nicer ride. no trackdays but fast road driving sometimes.need a good compromise between performance and plushness.

Budget?

£600 -£800. nearer to the lower figure as fitting and frsu will be another £300

You're probably better off keeping the stock suspension with decent springs in all honesty, and spend the money on decent rubber and brakes. Coilovers in that price range are unlikely to last and will most likely have a poor ride.

S2KIP said:

You're probably better off keeping the stock suspension with decent springs in all honesty, and spend the money on decent rubber and brakes. Coilovers in that price range are unlikely to last and will most likely have a poor ride.

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already got f1s and ferodo 2500s with eibach 15mm lowered progressive spring

so yellowspeed and meisters are no good?

£200 or £2000 set of coilovers, they all suck on the road in reality. Difference is the more expensive ones will last a little longer and perform better on track. Unless you live somewhere with nice roads (not in the UK) and don't intend on using it a lot for track then it's over kill.

Lewisgame said:

£200 or £2000 set of coilovers, they all suck on the road in reality. Difference is the more expensive ones will last a little longer and perform better on track. Unless you live somewhere with nice roads (not in the UK) and don't intend on using it a lot for track then it's over kill.

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depend on how fast you go .a well controlled car is paramount.

Well you'll have to drive slower on the road if you want them to last. Majority are far too stiff for road use and the lumps, bumps and pot holes will kill them eventually. Plus adding added stress on the rest of the suspension due to the added stiffness.
I have coilovers on my Civic Type R. I mainly use it just for tracks and very occasional road use and then I have to be picky with what routes I take to avoid poor roads.
I'm not telling you not to buy coilovers as they do improve the cars handling massively. But for the road that can compromise you more than the standard set up.

chrisg18 said:

already got f1s and ferodo 2500s with eibach 15mm lowered progressive spring

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There are better tyres than F1's and better pads than DS2500.

Lewisgame said:

£200 or £2000 set of coilovers, they all suck on the road in reality. Difference is the more expensive ones will last a little longer and perform better on track. Unless you live somewhere with nice roads (not in the UK) and don't intend on using it a lot for track then it's over kill.

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Driven many cars on £2000 coilovers? My S2000 was bliss on Öhlins, more comfortable than OEM by a long way.

S2KIP said:

There are better tyres than F1's and better pads than DS2500.



Driven many cars on £2000 coilovers? My S2000 was bliss on Öhlins, more comfortable than OEM by a long way.

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many race bikes though on £2000 back suspension lol. oh and f1s are a terrific tyre on the road,not much better about. the ferodos are fine for road use. they will never get up to racing temperatures on the road so will not fade with a race dot 4. why are you asking for an argument with retaliatory comments. lifes too short.

chrisg18 said:

many race bikes though on £2000 back suspension lol. oh and f1s are a terrific tyre on the road,not much better about. the ferodos are fine for road use. they will never get up to racing temperatures on the road so will not fade with a race dot 4. why are you asking for an argument with retaliatory comments. lifes too short.

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Terrific on the road? I'm guessing you haven't tried many decent alternates then, as I find them far from terrific. They are average at best. Try them against some Michelin Super Sports, Cup 2's, AD08R's etc. I had F1A2 on my last Evo and they lasted about 3 months before I got rid of them. I then tried the F1A3 thinking they'd be better, they didn't even last a weekend (there was a track day involved, but they really didn't inspire me on the road). Try some AD08R's or something like that before thinking about new suspension, if you appreciate the way a car feels and behaves on decent rubber then you'd be amazed.

I'm not asking for an argument at all, just posting about my actual experience of using the products you mention in over 12 years of owning and modifying Honda's and Evo's, rather than opinions based on what I've read on forums.

I've had two sub £800 sets of coilovers, and regularly driven another car with a third set, none were any better than OEM suspension with decent lowering springs. In fact, many years ago I had a DC5 with a set of D2 suspension on. I thought they were brilliant, till they fell apart and gushed fluid everywhere. I put on OEM DC5 suspension with Eibach progressive springs and it was like driving a new car. I imagine people on forums say they (and similar brands) are good to justify their expense and gain internet points. Your money, your choice. If you really are insistent on coilovers then look at the Eibach Pro Street S, little over budget, but they will outlast and outperform most of the BC, Yellow Speed etc and other Taiwanese based brands with different names. Manufactured in Germany, TUV compliant, corrosion resistant and from a brand with real racing and street performance heritage rather than some factory in Taiwan using cheap parts for large markup that you and I know little about.

Gonna be getting some coilovers in the next month or so, very tempted with the cheaper ones tbh, but I don't know much about suspension, I use the car around twice a week at the mo,

any recommendation's/advice would be appreciated.

From what I've read above it sounds like good advice to stick with Stock suspension and decent Springs , and from experience uprate the bushes where possible to poly bushes. Wishbones, Arbs and so one

went to abp motorsport today to let them look at the wheel spacers I put on. with the lowered 15mm springs and the 15mm spacers the clearance looked very small to me. no probs I was told by abp as with my frsu and road tyres there would be no contact.come away very relieved but lighter in the pocket. booked in for them to put on the whiteline rear anti-roll bar fitted which im told transforms the fn2. ive decided not to touch the suspension lol. no more mods for a while.thanks to everyone for their advice ,it worked.

Right, I just saw this so I chime in information, then you guys can decide what you want.

1. What are you using the car for?
If it is fast road & track use, coilovers can deliver a compliant ride as well as better road manner.
But it will depend if the company making the coilovers know what they are doing.

Also of time you see "racing" in the name, and that right away you need to watch out for.
Racing suspension and fast road suspension are completely different, one will not work well for the usage of the other.

What a good coilovers can do for you is get you a higher springs rate for increase roll resistant (there is a limit for road car, normally we like to set the line below 2.0Hz wheel frequency).
But the most important thing is the ability to adjust the damping.

Adjusting the damping give 2 effect.
1. softer damper provide more compliant ride characteristic, so softer damper will allow better traction on uneven road surfaces.
2. stiffer damping provide more pressure to the tyres, this make the tyres work harder for traction as well as sharpen up steering response.

Having that ability allow the driver to dial in what he prefer, and this personal preference is what makes the driving more enjoyable.
The body should feel more control and direct, and on softer damping it shouldn't be bone crushing hard either.

Having the ability to control ride height, as well as dialling in camber in the front (McPherson Strut on the Civic) will also allow for a more aggressive alignment setting if that is what you are after.

Anyways, just my 2pence on coilovers.
It doesn't necessary have to be hard or uncomfortable, and a bit engineering and understanding of vehicle dynamics goes a long way especially on the £800 area where it is competitive for both quality and performance.

Jerrick

Bilstein do a range of replacement dampers - that go from OEM spec to Sport - so you don't HAVE to go down the coilover route.

Equally, a friend who is an automotive engineer suggested that most coilovers use super stiff springs to compensate for the reduced suspension travel (a massive reduction if you go down 40-70mm). This puts additional stress on the damper unit itself and so they wear out faster except on super smooth roads. The same person suggested that the German suspension manufacturers build in a lot more longevity as they have to pass TUV certification (which is tough).

I had a set of Koni's and Eibachs on an old Golf VR6 that were way more comfortable than standard, because in effect it had stiff damping (and top adjustable) and not overly stiff (progressive) springs, not unlike yours. These did 30,000 miles on the road and about 5,000 miles flat out on trackdays without any signs of wear, leaks etc.

Having said all of that - I've bought some Bilstein PSS9 Top adjustable Coilovers and I can't wait to get them fitted and see what kind of compromise I get .....

I think you may want to talk to your automotive engineer friend again regarding this.
Coilovers do use stiffer springs, but that is because it can run a stiffer springs and have acceptable road compliancy due to the adjustable dampers.
Now I won't say all coilovers manufacturer know what they are doing, but then at the same time I can't say all manufacturer are clueless also.
Springs rate and damper valving go hand in hand in performance and comfort.

As for the TUV certification, it is more of an barrier to entry for the Germany and surrounding country.
TUV certification on suspension have nothing to do with longevity, they don't even test the damper.
Their concern are the springs will hold up the car weight, it fit the car, all adjustment range are published, and everything during manufacturing process have a paper trail that they can track.

This is why most TUV certified suspension do not come with camber adjustable top mount, because it will invalid the TUV certification unless the available movement of each top mount are individually tested for each application.
If you look at the Ohlins DFV range, the few application that are TUV approved, only the EVO X have camber adjustable top mount.

The certificate are also for each individual model, so that mean you got to go through the process for each car.
I have look into TUV before, and I would of have to take a lot of feature out of the coilovers, and spend quite a bit of money in order to de-tune the coilovers to meet TUV standard.
Then after that, going through with the testing, the cost is just not worth it.

The Bilstein PSS9 coilovers are great suspension, I am sure you will be happy with it.
Just want to bring this up about TUV as I get people asking me thinking it is a type of quality certification when in reality it is not.

Jerrick

MeisterR said:

I think you may want to talk to your automotive engineer friend again regarding this.
Coilovers do use stiffer springs, but that is because it can run a stiffer springs and have acceptable road compliancy due to the adjustable dampers.
Now I won't say all coilovers manufacturer know what they are doing, but then at the same time I can't say all manufacturer are clueless also.
Springs rate and damper valving go hand in hand in performance and comfort.

As for the TUV certification, it is more of an barrier to entry for the Germany and surrounding country.
TUV certification on suspension have nothing to do with longevity, they don't even test the damper.
Their concern are the springs will hold up the car weight, it fit the car, all adjustment range are published, and everything during manufacturing process have a paper trail that they can track.

This is why most TUV certified suspension do not come with camber adjustable top mount, because it will invalid the TUV certification unless the available movement of each top mount are individually tested for each application.
If you look at the Ohlins DFV range, the few application that are TUV approved, only the EVO X have camber adjustable top mount.

The certificate are also for each individual model, so that mean you got to go through the process for each car.
I have look into TUV before, and I would of have to take a lot of feature out of the coilovers, and spend quite a bit of money in order to de-tune the coilovers to meet TUV standard.
Then after that, going through with the testing, the cost is just not worth it.

The Bilstein PSS9 coilovers are great suspension, I am sure you will be happy with it.
Just want to bring this up about TUV as I get people asking me thinking it is a type of quality certification when in reality it is not.

Jerrick

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Fair comment and it was easy to believe that the TUV assessed quality and longevity! But then again this is your business. So one hand you obviously know your stuff, but on the other you're not exactly going to denigrate your product ....

My personal experience is that the more you lower the car, the less suspension travel you have. Which means the more you need to stiffen the springs and dampers to keep the vehicle off the bump stops / bottoming out. As when that happens the vehicle "skips". One a fairly smooth track, this is less likely to be an issue, but on a bumpy B Road it's terrifying when it happens at high speed ..... Hence most rally cars (even in "tarmac spec") run with a more generous / higher ride height and most touring cars appear "slammed" to the floor - presumably to keep the centre of gravity as low as possible!

Finding a combination that works on both road and track must be a major headache for suspension manufacturers, but it doesn't take a lot of research to find people complaining about coilovers having a much shorter life than their spring and damper equivalent. So why is that? Is it that the shorter, slimmer units are more compromised in their engineering due to packaging or cost constraints? Or is it combination of stiffer springing and vehicles being used on the cart tracks that we call UK roads?

Thanks for the comment on the Bilsteins - I hope you're right as I'm trying coilovers for the first time. I hope my fears are unfounded, but we'll see when I get them installed in a couple of weeks.

Many thought about that and TUV, and sadly it isn't true.
That is why you will find some £200 coilovers from Germany / E-bay that have TUV certification.
If you are willing to step through the trouble, most things can get TUV… it is just a matter of cost to the supplier.

As for your experience with travel, it is true but that only on OEM spec dampers.
Going to dual perch design coilovers like the MeisterR, the car is lowered using a lower bracket by shortening the damper body.
What that mean is the highest and lowest setting on the coilovers will not affect damper travel at all.

Harder springs rate normally is for progressive lowering springs.
If done correctly, coliovers with harder springs rate are provided to provide a higher "wheel frequency".
That along with adjustable damping allows the user to have a comfortable fast road or responsive track day setup.
A good suspension shouldn't "skip", but that have a lot more to do with just damper travel.

As for short stroke damper, it doesn't affect damper life at all.
There are a lot of factors, but if you look at our GT1 coilovers that offer a lifetime warranty, that is because we have a unique CNC shaft seal that doesn't wear, so that damper works for life unless something physically damage the rod (such as a bent rod or a scored shaft).

There are a lot of misconception on coilovers simply because a lot of people over the years have put "race" coilovers on road car to find the ride is rubbish.
Or manufacturer who simply think "harder is better" so people have been associated to it.
People with understanding of vehicle dynamics can dial out suspension that is good 90% of the time, because if you know how to calculate the set of math then all cars is the same; it is just the numbers that changes.

Jerrick