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This is why 2nd Gear Grinds

S

Shonk

Messages
39
As you may or may not know i have had problems with my gearbox
and honda has washed theyr hands with me after 2 rebuilds
and they havnt touched 2nd gear at all


im in the process of takeing them to court over it and stumbled on this tonight explaining exactly why my second gear is grinding on the k20a forums

(Quote)

I had the 2nd gear grind, and 3rd / 4th gear pop out. As I understand it, the problem comes from the synchros on those gears wearing out due to drag while in 5th and 6th gear. There is a service bulletin on the k20a2 to address it -- however, the service bulletin only fixes the 'cause' of the problem -- 5th and 6th gear drag... it does not repair the damaged 2nd gear etc. I had the service bulletin done and also had the 2nd and 3rd gear synchros replaced. When I got the car back, everything was great at first, then later the 4th gear started playing up. I realized I had not repaired 4th gear's synchro.

Bottom line: Service bulletin fixes cause of issue and states to troubleshoot remaining problems after bulletin. After the new fluid is broken in after service bulletin, the problem will come back and you have to get the other synchros fixed at that point.


(Quote End)

so there you go

Honda did the 5th and 6th fix but didnt touch my 2nd gear at all


this should be interesting when i go and see honda
 
Here's another post on k20a forums about it



Just a chime in here about the k20a2 tranny. The service bulletin that came out that replaces the 5th and 6th gearset along with some bushings or something -- it only prevents synchro damage from drag. It doesn't do anything for already damaged synchros. Many people have been frustrated due to the grindy tranny because after the service bulletin, the problem persists. The reason for this, in my opinion, is because the 2nd and 3rd gear (sometimes 4th) synchros are damaged at this point and the TSB only keeps it from getting worse. The TSB clearly states to troubleshoot remaining transmission problems after doing it. The problem is that when you put new tranny fluid in, the shifting is quite stiff and, well, not grindy. As soon as you get some miles on the tranny after the fluid change however, the problem comes right back. The real answer, at least in my case, was to replace the affected gear's synchros while doing the tsb. I convinced my dealer to do this and the problem went away for every gear and never returned, except 4th, the one I didn't have them replace the synchro on. 4th gear still popped out after a few thousand miles. I neglected to inform them about 4th being a problem, just 2nd and 3rd.

So... to summarize, if you are replacing the synchros in your tranny, perhaps you should do the TSB first so the synchro damage doesn't happen afterwards. Second, the TSB alone doesnt' get rid of the problem.

Last, and I didn't mention this before now, using GM synchromesh fluid fixed my remaining 4th gear problem. It's been near 10k miles since I switched to the GM synchromesh fluid and 4th hasn't popped out once. I can still feel where it used to catch, but it never stops there, it fully engages the dog teeth and never pops out when I apply power.

So... if it were me, with the experience I had with my tranny, if I had grindy gears I would do the following:

Switch to gm synchromesh fluid, see if the problem goes away -- this may work in some cases.

Do the TSB and replace the affected gear's synchros.

If problems remain, and some times people still have them, try switching to synchromesh at that time.

Ideally, you should stick with honda MTF and fix the problems, but in my case, synchromesh cleared up the problem with my 4th gear even though the synchro is probably damaged or worn fairly well. My tranny had the tsb done so I wasn't too worried about additional synchro damage as long as 4th stayed fine. I may need to replace the 4th gear synchro at some time. I remain impressed with gm synchromesh fluid -- most of my wrx/sti friends swear by it as well.
 
Me and my friend went out today with a camcorder

and tried getting the grinding on film

it ground 3 times two where small grinds one was a big grind that wouldnt go in gear


http://www.shonk.org/Civic/Gearbox.rar

ive rar'd up the vob files off the dvd i made here (26meg)

do you guys think honda will accept this as proof
as every time they drive the car they dont go over 2500 rpm


This was done on a quiet 60mph road with no cars on it
the speed didnt go over 35 mph ish


let me know what u guys think plz
 
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