Please help with your knowledge to make sure I have not been scammed

So some of you may have seen that I recently suffered an engine failure in my ep3 with a hole in the side of my block.

After shopping around I was offered an engine which had only done 42000 miles amd was from a 2005 car. I paid more than I had originally planned too due to low mileage and because it was from a face-lift and I wanted the lighter weight flywheel, I had not seen the engine prior to purchasing it, but it comes with 2 month warantee and was sold to me as being tested and in good condition.

The engine was delivered today and I have a small doubt in the back of my mind over what I have been told, hopefully one of you will be able to shed some light on it.

Did all face-lift EP3s come with the lighter flywheel?
The new engine seems to habe a solid flywheel and from Googling them, the face-lift one looks like it has "holes" around the outside of it, is that right?

I have the engine numbers, is there a way to tell the age of the car/engine from that?does anyone know their engine numbers to compare it too

The red paint on The valve cover is flaking off in a number of places, I know this happens in time but would this be the case at just 42k??

Ill try to post some pics up, hopefully I'll have an answer soon as I'm waiting to work on a few things on the engine before I install it and obviously don't want to do that if I have been sold a dud and I need to send it back!

Thanks
Vtecben

what do you think, facelift or pre facelift?

engine number in case anyone can help id/age this engine from it

My engine number (03 EP3) is 300####. Would need someone else to check theirs, but the first number **could** be year.

Paint condition on the cover is largely independent of miles, it's still at least 11 years old.

I've never seen either in person, but I was looking a while back and I do remember the facelift flywheel having holes around the outside too.

Did you get the reg or vin of the original motor?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also, if you have the car's VC5 you could check the original engine no.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Im 99% sure both Pre and Facelift motors are K20A2. The engines in both models are exactly the same.

Facelift flywheels do have holes in. Where as your new one does not.

Sadly no reg or v5.it was from a breakers, when I originally was discussing the engine with them, I asked about this and they explained that they get cars in without the registration from insurance companies when they are written off.

Yep, I know k20a2 is correct and this engine will fit, my concern is that the flywheel looks like a prefacelift when it's been sold to me as coming out of a 2005 car, and if they habe misled me about that, I feel it is likely they have also misled me about the mileage on the engine. one argument could be that a previous owner changed it to a pre facelift. But of course that would be a ridiculous nonsensical thing to do so I don't think that has happened

Engine type is K20A2 for both - But the serial number starting with a 1 doesn't feel right.

Ben I mean the V5 of your car, find out what the code of the dead engine is and compare?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ah got you now good idea I'll have a look at my v5c and compare later.

Ok, so we have established the flywheel is prefacelift, what about the engine number? Can anyone shed any light on that?

Can anyone confirm the engine number theory posted by ctr_nick? That would suggest my engine was made in 2001!!!

I googled it.


Look on the driverside of the engine. Just below the valve cover should be numbers there. 02, 03, 04. That number is the year of the motor.

A link to the page, with pictures.... http://www.k20a.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3951

Few cheeky edits going on in this thread tonight! I too have googled it, and checked the manual.

Everything points to a K20A2 with serial 100#### being from the first year of K20A2 production... aka 2001.

Hence my suggestion for Ben to check his original [dead] engine's number, rather than just speculating.

Yeah, I edited it when I realised it was different years with the K24. The link up now is the correct one and the year of manufacture is stamped on the drivers side of the engine.

I would go along with 2001 as being more than likely, unfortunately for Ben.

Thanks guys, my Google game is clearly poor in comparison to yours... As is my ability to type properly on a phone (hence the edits)!

I will check that number tomorrow morning and if it doesn't show that the engine was made in either 2004 or 2005 it will be going back as it has either been missold to me or the breakers yard in question have made a fairly big mistake!

Based on how they respond to me I will either name and shame or explain their helpfulness shortly!

I seem to be having a bit of a run of bad luck at the moment, I really hope the replacement for this replacement (if it's not a 2005 engine) is decent, otherwise you might see me locked up after a Norwich based version of Michael Douglas in 'falling down' happens!:twisted:

Out of curiosity, how much did you pay for it?

update....

the original engine number from my car (a 53 plate) is K20A2 3005###.

the numbers cast into the head of the replacement engine are a little faded but are 1/0 /7 2/6

I rubbed a bit of engine grime on then wiped it off to show the numbers a bit better


I have called my local Honda, who were very polite and friendly on the phone and seemed eager to help. However, their final answer was "yes mr Vtecben we can confirm that the k20a2 engine code you gave us will fit your car! and if you would like us to fit it for you we can do that as well sir".... after explaining that I already knew that, the point wasn't whether the engine will fit its whether It is what it is supposed to be and that wasn't really answering the question they stated that they couldn't retrieve any info based on the engine number.

I paid just under £900 delivered after negotiating. I would have paid less if I was aware it wasn't a facelift due to the additional cost of getting the facelift flywheel that I wanted and generally wanted to pay less than that but with the milage being reported to me as being 42k, and comes with a 60 day warantee I thought it was worth it. For example, there was an engine with approx. 70k on ebay at the time going at £300 which I would have bought otherwise

there also seems to be a little damage to one of the pipes coming from the oil filter housing.



a few pics to show the general condition of the engine.


I think its time for me to call the breakers to see what they say, in the mean time, if anyone else is able to either have a look at their engine numbers (on v5c or on block) to confirm what numbers should be on cars of various ages that would be appreciated.

cheers
Ben

Their initial response was not what I was hoping for:

I called and rather than accuse them, explained that it seemed as though they may have made a mistake and sent me the wrong engine. They stated that they made me aware that they do not guarantee the flywheel- I accept that and stated that if the flywheel was faulty then I wouldn't have an issue, but the problem is that it shows that the engine is from earlier than 2005, which the engine numbers seem to support

I asked for the chassis number/vin and was told that those markings are removed before they receive the cars by the insurance companies, the mileage would have been stated on the clocks/dash of the car, but it is possible that the engine or the flywheel was swapped prior to them having it. I made the point that although not impossible, I find it unlikely that a car with that low mileage would have needed an engine swap and even more unlikely that it would be swapped to an engine out of an early car, and even more unlikely than that that if it had just been the case that it had needed a new flywheel someone would have replaced it with an earlier, inferior part.

they then stated that they could not guarantee mileage etc. my view is that if they are unable to guarantee mileage, why was the engine quoted to me as "hi, engine is out of a 2005 which has covered 42,000 miles. thanks" rather than stating something along the lines of, "whilst we can not guarantee the mileage or history of the engine, it has come from a 2005 car which the odometer indicates has covered 42,000 miles"

the gentleman I spoke to said that he would go and speak to his boss and call me back.

I await his response....

the boss called back and said that they would accept the engine back and refund me as long as I paid for the delivery for them to send it out and for me to return it (£125). Is that reasonable/lawful?

However, they still guarantee that the engine works and will honour the warrantee should I choose to keep it. I understand that its POSSIBLY not their fault this has happened but still puts me in a bit of a dilemma, as I will have to source another, pay delivery for that, pay delivery both ways for this, wait for it all to arrive-additional cost to me approx. £200 (if engine purchase price is the same) and another weekish off the road....im actually wondering if I should just cut my losses and install this one, ordering a facelift flywheel (minor issue) from elsewhere.

looking at the engine overall, it seems like it COULD have done 42k.

Thought Id double check...

...yep...prefacelift!


is the wear on this about right for that milage?? or is this dead??its a DK (I believe this is original fit on our cars?)

FML.
ben

Edit: p.s. hope you like my ghetto flywheel tool!

I was looking at the tool thinking WTF, then scrolled down and read.

Just install it bud. If it's done 42k and you've documents/paperwork saying it, take it as that and then you'll be OK come time to sell on.

While you've got it out make sure you give it a good going over. Check oil pump, oil pump chain and tensioner, oil channels, crank condition, guides, cam chain and tensioner, timing, and depending on how far you go head, valves, cylinders for scoring, piston crowns...

You can get facelift flywheels easily enough on eBay or stick a new lightened one in.

Maybe try and get some money back off the breaker saying you paid over for a 2005 low mileage engine, that you were implicitly told about, not an, "It could be," description.

Also check the warranty, is it 60 days from delivery or when you install it? Clock could be ticking...

I think you're probably better off asking for a bit of a refund off the breakers and just sticking the thing in if everything Loxy mentioned checks out. If they're reasonable hopefully they can see what you've got doesn't really reflect what they've told you, especially if they told you it was a facelift engine.

The shipping costs are high but it's fairly standard for buyer to cover it on returns whether it's a DVD or an engine really.

That said, someone has dropped or knocked it at some point causing that damage to the oil pump - need to find out if it's water tight and giving good flow. Clutch wise, difficult to say for sure, some last 25k some last 150k, how thick is the friction disc?

After all that, I'd send it back. Try to agree on splitting the cost of postage so it's not so much a kick in the balls.
Now you know about the engine stamp codes, you can enquirer about these when asking other breakers for proof of a later engine and one with a facelift flywheel.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk