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Thread: Keyless relay attack

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    Photon's Avatar
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    Default Keyless relay attack

    Not what you want to be thinking about when you just got your first keyless vehicle, but there has been a lot of attention on this recently.

    https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/car...h-relay-attack

    I have seen several videos now, most recent I think on BBC news and I have just been passed a facebook post showing someone just lost their BMW overnight without the keys - just around the corner from me!

    I have a background in electronics and can appreciate how this works, but I also know some cars deal with this better in software, and its also possible to use radio pulse tech to measure the true distance between the key and the car.

    I guess what I really want to know without building one of these kits is, is the FK8 vulnerable to this attack? Does anyone know? I am guessing so thus I now keep the keys in a radio proof box! I don't want to be putting a steering lock on every 5 mins so my thinking is (for this kind of attack only) - secure the key, but it would be nice to understand if I need to do this or not.

    For the risk of them taking the key, thats a different one all together IMO..
    -Rallye Red FK8 Civic Type R

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    Founder Chris.'s Avatar
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    It's starting to gain momentum in the press. A simple faraday key wallet should stop it happening.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Keyless-Ent.../dp/B071ZGGRD1

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    They seem to target Ford's ST models, or that's what I seem to hear about more than anything else really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krzys View Post
    They seem to target Ford's ST models, or that's what I seem to hear about more than anything else really.
    This is a different style of theft, they plug a reader into the OBD port and can then silence the alarm and fire up the engine.


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    Quote Originally Posted by R35735 View Post
    This is a different style of theft, they plug a reader into the OBD port and can then silence the alarm and fire up the engine.
    Ah right, isn't entry to the vehicle a similar kind of process?

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    Agreed. Familiar with those kind of OBD attacks, but for that you need to be inside the vehicle already, after which point its pretty much fair game anyway. If you are inside, there are many options.

    The keyless vulnerability is more worrying because a lot of people keep their keys away from the car, but within easy reach of an amplified signal. It would also be very straight forward to perform the same trick when you were out with the car, say in a restaurant, as long as you were able to identify the owner.

    This was the recent video I saw..

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-4213...ught-on-camera
    Last edited by Photon; 29-11-2017 at 04:33 PM.
    -Rallye Red FK8 Civic Type R

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    Default Keyless relay attack

    To be honest, thieves are professionals these days. They’ll take your car anyway regardless how hard you make it.

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    If you have keyless then it seems a decent steering wheel security device is needed which cancels out any time saving made not having to use keys.
    Let's be careful out there !

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    Mark Type R's Avatar
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    If they’re going to pinch the car, then they’re going to pinch it.
    Better to have them do it without entering your house and baseball batting you across your head for the keys.
    However, I do have a faraday wallet

  12. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Type R View Post
    If they’re going to pinch the car, then they’re going to pinch it.
    Better to have them do it without entering your house and baseball batting you across your head for the keys.
    However, I do have a faraday wallet
    I have to agree. Although I think there are different levels of risk from different types of people. For those that really want to take the car, agreed they will take it, and I have come to the conclusion it's best to let them, unless you get excited about the idea of possibly waking up to them in your bedroom, with your children in the house, as I think someone has already pointed out earlier. For this reason it seems a lot of people don't hide their keys, some protect them in Faraday wallets but leave said wallet in view in the hallway.

    I think (and hope) that a lot of the people I hear trying cars for open doors at night, buying gadgets online to defeat entry systems etc are not necessarily the same kind of people that are happy with a confrontation or increasing their risk exposure. They are happy with us remaining asleep and using a silent and proven method and going undetected until it's too late. I hope these people will move on to another car when their method doesn't work and I think these opportunists are worth taking some precautions against.

    It worries me a little that this casual approach to key relaying could also be used when I was out and about. For this reason I spent a lot of time thinking about the below:

    If they do take the car, that doesn't mean it needs to disappear without a trace, or be able to drive very far. Just far enough so they don't run back!
    Last edited by Photon; 30-11-2017 at 06:23 PM.
    -Rallye Red FK8 Civic Type R

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