CH1 AEM ECU fitted
- Thread starter fastphil2006
- Start date
To be honest, im finding it very hard to see the logic in spending X amount of money to gain those few horses that these bolt-ons give you.
Trickyb has spent a fortune on uprating his ATR, and I bet if put my car at the side of his on a strip there would be nothing in it. Obviously there would be, he'd be quicker, but a cars length at the most. Is all this expensive worth it, definately not imho.
My Vtec point is set at 5600rpm, so off the line i'll be quicker. Plus changing the Vtec point and setting the valve clearances tight, has cost me absolutely zero, just copper wire, a switch and some solder.
If I were to go to town on modifying the accord, I would spend it on a big brake conversion, a proper suspension set-up and strip the excess weight.
Absolutely no point in spending on performance after the manditory exhaust and breathing mods.
Dont know about everyone else's, but in the present weather conditions, if I vtec hard in 2cnd, I spin into 3rd.
If you want a fast car, then buy a fast car in the first instance, like a scooby for example, that when you modify them, you get substantial gains and the chassis still copes.
If your going to improve the performance on the ATR, a turbocharger is the ONLY way to go.
Just my view, a common sense view.
Trickyb has spent a fortune on uprating his ATR, and I bet if put my car at the side of his on a strip there would be nothing in it. Obviously there would be, he'd be quicker, but a cars length at the most. Is all this expensive worth it, definately not imho.
My Vtec point is set at 5600rpm, so off the line i'll be quicker. Plus changing the Vtec point and setting the valve clearances tight, has cost me absolutely zero, just copper wire, a switch and some solder.
If I were to go to town on modifying the accord, I would spend it on a big brake conversion, a proper suspension set-up and strip the excess weight.
Absolutely no point in spending on performance after the manditory exhaust and breathing mods.
Dont know about everyone else's, but in the present weather conditions, if I vtec hard in 2cnd, I spin into 3rd.
If you want a fast car, then buy a fast car in the first instance, like a scooby for example, that when you modify them, you get substantial gains and the chassis still copes.
If your going to improve the performance on the ATR, a turbocharger is the ONLY way to go.
Just my view, a common sense view.
Im not saying what you have said is anyway wrong mate but i dont agree totally. I came close to buying an evo 6 a few months back and to be honest im really glad i didn`t , the only evo id swap my ATR for now would have to be something very special or brand spanking new.
I know i have spent £xxxx on my car and some has been wasted but i want to get my car to exactly how i want it and untill i do get to that point the spending will continue, Id also like to think that what ive done and things ive found out will benefit other people who own the same car and help them to make the correct choices when or if they decide to modify theirs.
My car is currently 25+ whp and +10lb/ft up over my standardish power, plus i can get another 40 + miles from a tank of fuel when taken easy. The coilovers i changed to as i said before are not the best ive ever had but after they were setup propperly and i replaced a few bushes the cars handles better than standard and has more grip, I know the car`s handling and setup is top notch as i was lapping quicker than the e30 m3`s and most of the time attack cars at Brandshatch a few months back
(wet and dry). Side by side my car will pull away from a standrd ATR at any speed or any rpm, if your ever about id be willing to show you, the bolt ons dont make a huge difference on their own but when the ecu is mapped specifically for the mods and the car the difference is very clear.
With the ATR chassis N/A power is the way to go unless you only intend to go fast in straight lines, if a certain US engine builder didn`t mess me about i would have probably been driving around in 400+ bhp turbo ATR now. My plans have now changed and after driving a turbo`d EP3 i dont want a turbo anymore and im staying N/A as Honda intended .
My aim was originally 220 whp but after the next install in March (cams, cam gears, custom header, headwork and remap) the power could possibly be above that.
All this n/a power combined with a car that handles as well as any other ive driven, has plenty of wet and dry grip, is comfortable and still quiet to drive and imo still looks good gives me the perfect allrounder for track days and geting somewhere quickly and in style.
I own a Freelander and a van aswell as the ATR and for me to have kept the ATR as a weekend toy i think says a lot:twisted:
Ive heard it loads of time now "what you driving that thing for old man" then after a quick passengr ride the opinion changes
I must apologise to LL aswell for a thread where i compared a Pug GTI6 engine with the H22A7 How wrong was I.
I know i have spent £xxxx on my car and some has been wasted but i want to get my car to exactly how i want it and untill i do get to that point the spending will continue, Id also like to think that what ive done and things ive found out will benefit other people who own the same car and help them to make the correct choices when or if they decide to modify theirs.
My car is currently 25+ whp and +10lb/ft up over my standardish power, plus i can get another 40 + miles from a tank of fuel when taken easy. The coilovers i changed to as i said before are not the best ive ever had but after they were setup propperly and i replaced a few bushes the cars handles better than standard and has more grip, I know the car`s handling and setup is top notch as i was lapping quicker than the e30 m3`s and most of the time attack cars at Brandshatch a few months back
(wet and dry). Side by side my car will pull away from a standrd ATR at any speed or any rpm, if your ever about id be willing to show you, the bolt ons dont make a huge difference on their own but when the ecu is mapped specifically for the mods and the car the difference is very clear.With the ATR chassis N/A power is the way to go unless you only intend to go fast in straight lines, if a certain US engine builder didn`t mess me about i would have probably been driving around in 400+ bhp turbo ATR now. My plans have now changed and after driving a turbo`d EP3 i dont want a turbo anymore and im staying N/A as Honda intended
.My aim was originally 220 whp but after the next install in March (cams, cam gears, custom header, headwork and remap) the power could possibly be above that.
All this n/a power combined with a car that handles as well as any other ive driven, has plenty of wet and dry grip, is comfortable and still quiet to drive and imo still looks good gives me the perfect allrounder for track days and geting somewhere quickly and in style.
I own a Freelander and a van aswell as the ATR and for me to have kept the ATR as a weekend toy i think says a lot:twisted:
Ive heard it loads of time now "what you driving that thing for old man" then after a quick passengr ride the opinion changes
I must apologise to LL aswell for a thread where i compared a Pug GTI6 engine with the H22A7
How wrong was I.
Fair point tricky, i dont mind how other people spend there money.
I will tell you that according to my R-vit, I can get 0-60 in 5.6 seconds from a standing start with a boot full of 15 decats and a sub and amp. I positive that I can get better with a lighter car and sharper gear change. I have no bolt ons other than a decat and custom airflow. The rest is down to my own modifications, and minus a remap which isnt needed if a tuner with half a brain isnt so fast to take your money.
Its horses for courses dude
I will tell you that according to my R-vit, I can get 0-60 in 5.6 seconds from a standing start with a boot full of 15 decats and a sub and amp. I positive that I can get better with a lighter car and sharper gear change. I have no bolt ons other than a decat and custom airflow. The rest is down to my own modifications, and minus a remap which isnt needed if a tuner with half a brain isnt so fast to take your money.
Its horses for courses dude
Got to agree with your comments mate. I just don't see anyone getting huge improvements from their various mods (apart from those ATR's that have been turboed)
I got 225bhp from a Typhoon, H&S Cat Back Exhaust, Dastek Unichip and Vtec lowering module. Thats around £1000 worth plus dyno time. Not worth it. It barely if at all pulls on a standard ATR.
Look at the gains Scoobies get from similar mods. Much better value for money.
It will be interesting to see Phils car once the AEM is remapped. It may give a few more ponies however I doubt it will leave other ATRs behind.
All this said, I cannot find another car that delivers everything I need!
I got 225bhp from a Typhoon, H&S Cat Back Exhaust, Dastek Unichip and Vtec lowering module. Thats around £1000 worth plus dyno time. Not worth it. It barely if at all pulls on a standard ATR.
Look at the gains Scoobies get from similar mods. Much better value for money.
It will be interesting to see Phils car once the AEM is remapped. It may give a few more ponies however I doubt it will leave other ATRs behind.
All this said, I cannot find another car that delivers everything I need!
At last, a atr owner with common sense !
Tricky, you mentioned head work, can you tell us what exactly is being done and who is doing it ?
Your obviously been told the right things, because the cylinder head is the limiter now with your car, as you've done or doing the camshaft profiles, header, fuel and ignition.
Basically, because the ATR doesnt have a turbocharger, the cylinder head is the limiter on how much power a n/a engine can make. You can do what you want with modifications, but if the cylinder head cant support it, its just throwing money away.
What the cylinder head shop should do is work to a combination of the head and valves, then intake and exhaust ports, once the gains have been maximised then they should finish with the valve seat profiles.
Trouble is, you'll have to have work done on the intake and header to marry with the cylinder head modifications.
Cannot understand why you dont go turbocharged ?
Your obviously been told the right things, because the cylinder head is the limiter now with your car, as you've done or doing the camshaft profiles, header, fuel and ignition.
Basically, because the ATR doesnt have a turbocharger, the cylinder head is the limiter on how much power a n/a engine can make. You can do what you want with modifications, but if the cylinder head cant support it, its just throwing money away.
What the cylinder head shop should do is work to a combination of the head and valves, then intake and exhaust ports, once the gains have been maximised then they should finish with the valve seat profiles.
Trouble is, you'll have to have work done on the intake and header to marry with the cylinder head modifications.
Cannot understand why you dont go turbocharged ?
Im not talkng @ fly figures peeps i dont trust them atall, my last fly figure which was done at engine advantages before the last ecu setup and induction mods was 249 bhp up from 229 when my car ran their the first time (near standard car at the GROUP RR day) in theory that would now show 255 or sowith the current cold temp and a 5 bhp wheel increase.
Im having the hedwork done in the US by a company that get proven gains from H22 headwork (IL ADD THE LINK LATER) they will work a standard h22 head to save me sending mine over there and also il be paying about £50 for new head nd my ATR head will be a spare.
Im having the hedwork done in the US by a company that get proven gains from H22 headwork (IL ADD THE LINK LATER) they will work a standard h22 head to save me sending mine over there and also il be paying about £50 for new head nd my ATR head will be a spare.
interesting, but for the logic of me, i cannot get my head around why you arent going tc'd. If you did, then you could have a much stronger short block too, and you would have a fast, reliable motor.
Whats you current and estimated 0-60 times ?
Cant help but think your stretching the already stretched engine, that aint gunna be that fast anyway.
Whats you current and estimated 0-60 times ?
Cant help but think your stretching the already stretched engine, that aint gunna be that fast anyway.
IIRC, richies made over 240 with just an exhaust and a typhoon.
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just a thought with it being correct me if i'm wrong here a 17 year old engine.
i would imagine honda spend thousands trying to squeeze what little bhp they could out of it to make 212 from was it 200 or so previously surely
you are not going to make much more by bolting on here and there other than a decat/quality exhaust up grade which is proven where as a induction system is although subjective a cold air feed mod will suffice.
i would imagine due to budget and red tape both these mods could not have been done by honda however i believe that the engine is as good as you can get for a 17 year old design or am i being naieve?
having said that anyone remember "ed's" car making 220 with just a panel filter and a set of irridiums on the last rr day down south and we all know how funny ed is regarding rr results:lol:
i would imagine honda spend thousands trying to squeeze what little bhp they could out of it to make 212 from was it 200 or so previously surely
you are not going to make much more by bolting on here and there other than a decat/quality exhaust up grade which is proven where as a induction system is although subjective a cold air feed mod will suffice.
i would imagine due to budget and red tape both these mods could not have been done by honda however i believe that the engine is as good as you can get for a 17 year old design or am i being naieve?
having said that anyone remember "ed's" car making 220 with just a panel filter and a set of irridiums on the last rr day down south and we all know how funny ed is regarding rr results:lol:
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I dont trust fly figures atall unless its done with the engine out, nice for pub talk and selling cars.
Who is Richie ??? is this a different rr on a differrent day.
The best at our Grp rr day was Garreth (LL) who made 244 hp with lots of bolt ons and a Unichip mapped by Engine Advantages, the next highest was Rich who made 231 with bolt ons.
Heres a few graphs to look at. ATR`s with zorst, downpipe, decat and induction make about 169-171 whp. Mine had a dodgy coil pack and dropped power just before the top.
Now compare a graph from a engine with bolt ons to a engine which has been mapped (mine before and after mapping) , garreth could post his old graph up aswell and this would show the difference compared to mine which just had bolt ons on the Engine advanteges dyno compared to his that had a setup unichip.
This was 190 whp (mapped) V 173 WHP with bolt ons
Just check the difference in torque through the whole rpm band (Healthy standard WITH BOLT ONS) V ( Bolt ons and mapped)
193.4 whp . ARC induction kit fitted and map adjusted (same rollers)
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rrgraph23122007yd8.jpg
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Timbo your points are good and speak common sense imho, I agree with you.
Not too sure about 0-60 time as i havn`t got an accurate enough way of measuring it even with the data loging on the ecu its hard to be precise, what i do know tho is my car is quicker to 60 or 100 mph than 1 of these
http://www.clubgt.co.uk/LanciaDeltaIntegrale.html
By 120 mph i can pull a gap of about 4 car lengths quite easily, there is video footage of this (filmed from a 172 cup that couldn`t keep up) but im not going to post that up or send it at the moment untill its been edited
http://www.clubgt.co.uk/LanciaDeltaIntegrale.html
By 120 mph i can pull a gap of about 4 car lengths quite easily, there is video footage of this (filmed from a 172 cup that couldn`t keep up) but im not going to post that up or send it at the moment untill its been edited
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0-60 is not a good way of working out how quick a car is. Acceleration from a certain speed to another certain speed is much more accurate but again down to your measuring equipment.
By far and away the most accurate and safest way (for straight line :ghey: )is the 1/4 mile at a deticated strip. Bazza you've recently done the 1/4 mile haven't you?
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The quickest times i managed at the Pod (september) this year MR G were
14.28 @ 98 mph
14.31 @ 99 mph
14.44 @ 97 mph
Not bad for a fully loaded car, thats as good as i could get in the current state of tune and weight, could probably get slightly quicker with different tyres and the interior removed.