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Aem water/methanol

jura said:
Hi there

We've run on Subaru WMI(water Methanol Injection),we've run AEM WMI kit which has been very easy to fit and you should be able to fit this very easy and power gains 15bhp which is lot less than we are expected,when we are run only methanol in tank(15-20%) we are gained extra 40bhp

WMI is not for making more power(but yes you will make bit more power on the top),is more for cooling the IAT/ACT(Air Charge Temperature) and bit more power,we are tried several settings of injection or we are tried several other mixtures(60% meth and 40% of water or 50/50 etc),gains has been still same around 15bhp,but agree our ACT dropped on drag strip to low 35C during the very hot weather(without the WMI our ACT has been at 60C)

If you are looking to making more power then I would highly recommend to run meth in tank(15-20%) and make two maps one for normal and one for meth fuel,gains are much bigger on supercharged or turbo cars,we are made on V-power 352bhp and on Meth we are made 382bhp

Fail safe you shouldn't need,but depends on the yours feel and what you want,just don't expect this will make running WMI safer,depends on what nozzle you want to run,but we are run bigger and smaller and we are gained exactly same on our WMI around 15bhp,but with lower ACT/IAT temps

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
Click to expand...


I'm running a Jrsc 6-7 psi currently
Toda manifold
Solid fab 3" cat back "no cat"
Rc650 injectors
Tegiwa M

I'd like to get 340 but i won't up the boost till I have adequate cooling to which you have just given me my answer, I'll run an aem kit, my boss has loads of methanol, so I'd like to say I'll run meth all the time. And go for there :)
 
louckie said:
I'm running a Jrsc 6-7 psi currently
Toda manifold
Solid fab 3" cat back "no cat"
Rc650 injectors
Tegiwa M

I'd like to get 340 but i won't up the boost till I have adequate cooling to which you have just given me my answer, I'll run an aem kit, my boss has loads of methanol, so I'd like to say I'll run meth all the time. And go for there :)
Click to expand...

Hi there

Really depends on target,but usually with WMI setup you will have lower ACT(Air Charge Temperature) and better knock resistance which is only good on supercharged or turbo cars.On NA cars WMI doesn't make such difference as on supercharged or turbo cars.

Yes if you have loads of meth,then I would run this,but just don't run only meth with WMI,you will kill WMI pump in no time and not sure if those lines this withstands or they will last,meth is dirty business,but really is worth,gains are great if you are running in tank(we are run 48L of V-power and 12L of meth which has been around 20% of meth and we are gained on EP3 around 36-40bhp with first turbo kit)

Aquamist or AEM using I think same pump,Shurco pumps and both systems are best,Snow WMI systems are popular over on diesels which should work too on petrol engines too without the problems

If you will be running meth in tank,just bit of advice,you will need large enough injectors to accommodate extra flow and please check seals around injectors time after time,they can be perished after while and if you are running braided lines then,check ends of the hoses if they're not starting to deteriorate which can happens

WMI is great thing if yours target to lower ACT/IAT which you really need on Supercharger

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
 
This is very useful information, thanks Jura.
The 20% of meth used was that the optimal mix ratio for the ep3? Would not make more power by let's say using a 40 or 50% meth mixture?
I'm running rotrex supercharger 10 psi boost pressure.
Thanks
 
Vteker said:
This is very useful information, thanks Jura.
The 20% of meth used was that the optimal mix ratio for the ep3? Would not make more power by let's say using a 40 or 50% meth mixture?
I'm running rotrex supercharger 10 psi boost pressure.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi there

Personally I wouldn't go beyond that 15-20%,its proven and tested on numerous cars,I know Andy F run on his Subaru 50% and gains has been negligible against the 20%,only thing which is better is to run E85,but over here is not available and if yes,then only racing E85 which is expensive

If you want to run meth in tank and you have K-PRO V4 then I would suggest get Flex Fuel sensor,its great thing and if you are not 100% sure how much meth is in tank,but this must set yours mapper,lets say,he can set this margin as low as 15% and high as 25%,when you put lets say 22% of meth ECU will correct that,if you will not run this sensor,you will be running bit more richer on top end and there you can loose power

We are run from 15-20% as max like on EP3 or Subaru and many people running similar ratio which is working well on many other cars,I've not seen someone who running more than 25%,there are gains,maybe minimal,not massive gains like jumping from 10% to lets say 20%

On K-PRO you can't have switcheable maps which will allow you to run two fuel maps,due this mapper will must make two maps,one map for V-Power and one for Meth...Depends on mapper,he should be able to map meth without the question or without the flex fuel sensor which is not needed,we are run on EP3 or on Subaru without the problem and without the Flex Fuel sensor,just I would suggest keep in mind how much meth you will be putting in first place

If you want to switch from meth to normal map or from normal map to meth,then I would suggest run car to the reserve light and fill up with normal petrol or fill up with desired ratio of meth and petrol,its bit complicated,but we are always keeping in the car 5-10L of meth which is OK for emergency

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
 
And I forgot to say,running in tank meth this will not make any difference to IAT/ACT temperature,this in tank meth is more for BHP gains than cooling,due this if you are looking more for IAT/ACT temps decrease with in tank meth then you will be disappointed,due this you will need to run WMI if you are looking for cooler IAT/ACT temps


Thanks,Jura
 
Jura

Can I ask what you have your progressive controller set to?

I start at 6 psi and reach maximum at 10 psi.
 
RY4N said:
Jura

Can I ask what you have your progressive controller set to?

I start at 6 psi and reach maximum at 10 psi.
Click to expand...


Hi there

What we are run on Subaru,we are tried few settings like start at 12psi and maximum has been set at 23psi,then we are tried to start at 0psi and maximum has been set at 23psi again,difference has been only in ACT/IAT temps when we are set start at 0psi,on RR we are lost around 10bhp with that settings,AFR has been spotless through the range and Syvecs controlled this perfectly,later on we have mapped again car and we are been on same bhp like at old settings(start at 12psi and maximum 23psi),just difference in hot weather on drag strip has been around 10C

I need to say everything depends is not how you set,but where you will put WMI nozzle and which nozzle you want to use and then settings,on some settings you can loose power,but you will and can gain on cooler IAT/ACT temperature and then with right mapping you can gain power

I will try to find older pictures how and where we are have fitted WMI nozzle,but this has been on Subaru,where our WMI nozzle has been put on not good place,you want to have fitted WMI nozzle closest to TB,on our Subaru this has been quiet far from TB this I must admit

On yours you are running meth or are you running only water without the methanol mixture ?

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
 
Hi Jura

I am running a 50/50 mix water/meth.
I have the nozzle located 8 inches from Tb.

This is on a JRSC EP3. I already have a charge cooler located inside the inlet manifold so I'm guessing the cooling could not really be optimized any further with the meth?
 
RY4N said:
Hi Jura

I am running a 50/50 mix water/meth.
I have the nozzle located 8 inches from Tb.

This is on a JRSC EP3. I already have a charge cooler located inside the inlet manifold so I'm guessing the cooling could not really be optimized any further with the meth?
Click to expand...

Hi there

50/50 is most common to use and have best results in knock/ignition and cooling,we are tried several mixtures with meth like 60/40 etc and there has been small differences,we are tried to run only water,but this has been just for cooling and we are lost on top end after mapping and we are reverted to 50/50 mixture

I will post the results from WMI on Subaru and on V-Power alone,just take to account on V-Power temps outside has been close to 0 and on WMI temps at RR has been close to 25C

And about the yours,everything can be further developed or optimized for more power or more cooling,which nozzle are you using this smallest or this which is largest,small should be 330cc and largest is 650cc and this can have impact on power and cooling too,you can try play with putting close to TB or using larger nozzle etc and then you will see and I would for sure log knock/ignition and IAT etc and then I would have car mapped for bigger gains,we are tested and tried several settings and mixtures and find best mixture and best settings is pain,but gains are worthwhile on any car,just check sometimes on nozzles for limescale and check intake if its OK and there is no limescale buildup and if its possible I would run Distilled/Deionised water just due the limescale,but normal water will works too,just I would check every few months those above bits

We are made 15bhp extra on smallest jet,with largest jet I would suspect 20-25bhp extra on V-Power.On WMI we are made 465bhp with smallest jet and with largest jet I would expect something like 470-475bhp as most,this is only my theory and what I know about the WMI

Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
 
Thank you. I always run distilled bottled water. Didn't think about limescale I just thought it would be cleaner as not running in line filter.
 
RY4N said:
Thank you. I always run distilled bottled water. Didn't think about limescale I just thought it would be cleaner as not running in line filter.
Click to expand...

We are not run too inline filter and we are been OK too,no limescale on normal water too over here,we are always checked after 3 months,but everything has been OK too,but we are later on switched to distilled water

Here are results on Subaru

V-power alone



T99 with 50/50 meth and smallest jet



T99 with 20% meth in tank



Thanks,Jura
 
RY4N ... When you made 361 bhp what mods were they ? What nozzle size ect ? Also I believe I have a Kpro v2 is it possible to have meth on a switch like yourself?

Are we agreeing to disagree 20/80 mix meth is happy medium
And you've mounted your injector 8" from the tb would you change this if you have the chance or is 8" optimum ?

Location of the air temp sensor is something else I'd be interested to have your verdict on




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RY4N said:
I'm running 12 psi on my jackson. Pulled 361bhp.
Gains were 10% torque mid range with 10 bhp up top. So not significant but a much healthier safer temp. Especially with the heat generated.
I would have seen a massive difference if the methanol was all I was using to cool the temps but I have a stage2 cooler also
Click to expand...

jura said:
And I forgot to say,running in tank meth this will not make any difference to IAT/ACT temperature,this in tank meth is more for BHP gains than cooling,due this if you are looking more for IAT/ACT temps decrease with in tank meth then you will be disappointed,due this you will need to run WMI if you are looking for cooler IAT/ACT temps


Thanks,Jura
Click to expand...

???? Guys I want to start installing soon


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@ Jura, can you please advise if running 20/80 mix of meth requires different heat range plugs and plugs also being gapped to suit such mixture.
Thanks
 
Vteker said:
@ Jura, can you please advise if running 20/80 mix of meth requires different heat range plugs and plugs also being gapped to suit such mixture.
Thanks
Click to expand...

Hi there

Do you want to run 20/80 as water methanol or do you want to run only meth in tank?

If you want to run only 20/80 mix(20% meth and 80% water) you will not make too much power,you can loose power...Running 80% meth and 20% water this should add bit more power,but not sure if WMI pump will be OK with that mixture as they're been made for 50/50(max I would run probably 60/40,but I've seen few guys tried to run 70/30 without the any problems)

Running in tank 20% meth is best if you are looking to make more power and you will make more power than on WMI without the questions.


Hope this helps

Thanks,Jura
 
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