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EP3 FN2 test drive thread

Well Lisa took the FN2 out on the weekend, she came back to the garage unhappy and said she'll be keeping the DC2 :(

It's slower than the DC2, doesn't handle as well, as the engine noise isn't as good. There you have it.

I wasn't allowed to drive it, as it was to be her decision, I have a Legend for the moment :)
 
Most on here will know that I have been one of the more critical voices of the FN2 (Aint that right G? :lol: ), but until now its all been based on the spec's and Honda's change of marketing direction with the Type R branding. Well I finally took one out last week but have only just found time to sit down a write a review. Its been a while coming so here goes!

Into the car, and first impressions are good. The seats have been getting some rave reviews on here and I feel the need to add my endorsement too. Much better than the already good EP3 seats for grip and comfort. Initially I found them a tad too high, but then I remember Scouse's review and found the adjuster! Im very much a tactile man, so interface points with the car are a very major selling point to me, and here the FN2 scores. As well as the seats, the pedals are something of a welcome surprise. I hadnt realised the FN2 sported alloy pedals, and the excellent off-clutch footrest was always something I found lacking in the EP3. The steering wheel isnt bad too despite the odd shape, although I found it a little more slender than I would normally like. The gearleaver of course it one of the Type R trademarks, and once again its good, solid precise and well weighted throw, but I found myself kinda missing the EP3's dashmounted stick for that full-on racer feel. All good then? Well no to be honest, because no matter how much I tried I cant get used to that dash. I dispise digi-dashs with a passion, and this is one of the worst Ive encountered in a while. The central mounted rev counter is great, and something I believe all sporty cars should boast, but in this application it looks lost behind tons of swoopy plastic. The whole thing is way too fussy. Sure Honda have simply carried on the theme of the external styling, but in a car that is about the thrill of driving I want minimum distraction from the dash to allow me to focus on the road ahead. The controls are just way too Buck Rodgers for my liking, and you find yourself having to look around to find what you want. Less distracting gimicks please Honda, more eyes-on-the-road where they belong, especially in the performance model.

Out onto the road and Im determined to take the first few miles steady to gauge the drive without the rosy rub of the VTEC hit. The car feels confortable over uneven surfaces that would have jarred EP3 driver, and the fine tuning to the engine means low speed progress is much improved. Making my way through the traffic was an altogether more effortless experience than it used to be in the EP3. The particular car I drove has the standard 18" wheels, and despite boasting bigger rubber the tyre drone was no worse than I remember in the EP3 over rough patches, quieter even, making it a much more easy to live with compainion in the clutches of the traffic. The steering initially feels more alert than the EP3, giving more feedback, and feeling better weighted generally. Of serious annoyance though is the rear view. That high mounted spoiler really does eat up the view in the rear view mirror, and the rear 3/4 view is bloody awfull, as the styling has robbed the car of decent size rear quater windows to see out of. Add to this the fact that the seats grip firmer than before and the blind spot becomes a royal pain. I can imagine that in rush hour traffic it would sometimes be a case of roulette when changing lanes. FN2 drivers in London are gonna need the services of a good chiropractor if they rack up serious miles with all that neck straining!

Into the countryside and a chance to finally open the taps properly. Cog down and plant it and the engine hits VTEC for the first time. The car rushes forwards with a more hard edged sound than the EP3, probably due to the twin pipes. The engine induction roar and general thrashiness you get from the EP3 is muted, replaced by that dual exhaust note. I can see why opinion is divided on the noise it makes. True the front end noise levels are down, but the back end is making up for maters. Dispite the additional weight the FN2 carries Im hit by a shocking revelation I wasnt expecting, it actually feels just as fast as my EP3 did. Oh God no, I can almost hear G cutting me a huge slice of humble pie! :lol: Then I remember the FN2 hits VTEC earlier and is shorter geared, so the quicker throttle response and blurred shifts actually give the illusion that the FN2 is firing down the straights just as rapidly. A quick blast down a favorite road confirms this, my EP3 was standard and hit higher speeds on the straights than the FN2 can manage. The loss of the VTEC kick feels wrong too, sure its just a dip in torque to enhance the effect, but it made the previous Type R's feel so special that you would grin just as you knew it was about to do it. The FN2 trades this for a light on the dash which for me kills the effect somewhat. I'm sure the "I-VTEC" light will have its fans but Im not one of them. Way too Halfords for my liking I'm afraid, give me the plain old VTEC kick anyday. Early impressions at speed are that the FN2 has more in common with the S2000 and Accord Type R than the old EP3. Its rides the bumps more in tune with the Accord, and changes direction in similar fashion, and the linear power delivery and soundtrack are much like the S2K. Time to lean on it a bit and really put it under the cosh.

Here the FN2 fustrates slightly, as although its easier to keep on the boil due to the larger VTEC zone, the shorter ratios mean you are constantly running out of cog. Although it does iron out that B-road dilema the EP3 had in tighter turns where 2nd was too short and 3rd too tall! The brakes are truely fantastic, mind you the EP3 was never lacking in the stopping department either, but the pedal feel is improved here and the bigger rubber probably means the FN2 has the edge. That is untill you really lean on them and then the tail goes light and the first signs of a tankslapper wag appear. I had completely forgotten about the torsion beam rear untill now, and as the Civic transfers weight under heavy braking the arse goes light and the rear squirms. I doubt many people will ever push on hard enough on the road to encounter it, but its there alright, and though its easy to control an inexperienced FN2 driver might discover why the 80's torsion beam hatches had a reputation for flinging drivers backwards into the shrubbery! The handling is good though, even though the car feels quite heavy compared to the EP3. The steering seems to have more feel than the EP3 true enough, but Im not convinced by those who say it handles better. Its certainly easier to push on in the FN2 as the softer settings induce more body roll giving you more indication of how much grip there is. But even with the wider rubber Im not sure the FN2 actually has more grip. Just a more confidence inspiring set up thats easier for mr average to trust. I hammer the car through a series of downhill s-bends with bad camber shifts and the point is made. My old EP3 would brake true before dropping into the first downhill right and then drift the tail as I powered out of the left kink, crashing over the camber shift with a mighty thud but not a sniff of understeer. The FN2 goes tail light braking on the approach, requiring a hint of correction, then the suspension compresses over the camber as as the road shifts right to left, countering the EP3's thud, but causing a slight lurch that pushes the car wide of the exit line. Hmmm, good but the committed driver will find the EP3 the more rewarding and entertaining car.

So finally the verdict then. The FN2 is in every way a better car. There I said it! To be honest I expected too. Its more friendly, more comfortable, more practical, better equipt and easier to drive fast than the EP3 was. If your one of those who's simply read Evo and the like and though "Watered down rubbish" I would wager you will be pleasantly surprised. Most people will find it prefferable to their EP3 I reckon if they can live with the styling. The car feels so much more grown up than the EP3 that it actually seems daft having the I-VTEC lump in it. It would feel far more at home with something like the 5 pot turbo lump from the Focus ST under the hood. Take away all that thrashy noise and constant gearchanging allowing you to relax into its composed chassis. But, and again I kinda knew this would be coming too, I would take the EP3. Though the FN2 would indeed be the better car 75% of the time, for me its about those moments when you are free from traffic and want to have fun that make the EP3 the one to have. The FN2 does so much more for you that sometimes wonder if its you or the car thats monstering the corners. Its cliche I know but it almost seems boring in comparision. The EP3 leaves you in no doubt who's calling the shots, and rewards serious drivers like FN2 cannot hope to. The whole ethos of a Type R for me is about sacrificing form and excess for function in the pursuit of driving pleasure. The EP3 may not be as true to this ethos as the DC2, but its certainly much closer to it than the FN2. And thats why its still my choice! :cool:
 
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Yeah fair play. Great write up :D. TBH I know it is still not going to be everyone's cup of tea, but all I ever wanted was folks to give it a go and not just read the mag reviews.

No one asked me if I would get one myself mind :D. I would you know, really would even after driving the VXR and ST...if it was not for the fact that I have my heart set on an 'S' ;)
 
dotty said:
Great review spoon, I get the impression you have sold your EP3?
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Yeah mate tis long gone. Had a 52 plate for three years and 100,000 miles of driving and loved every minute of it. I gave it some serious stick in the three years I owned it, yet the only fault it had was a sidelight bulb blow! Got it via work and had the option of keeping it after three years, but it got vandalised badly as some may remember, so I let it go after that. :(

Trouble is a mate of mine has just brought himself a red DC5, and after a blast in that I have the VTEC bug again! think a Teg could be on the cards in the near future! ;)
 
I went to my local dealer and was told that i had to be aged 25 to test drive the new FN2! I replied, though i already drive a Type R!!!
 
I currently have a new CTR for the weekend. Review to follow on Monday. Downside to this weekend - working through pretty much all of it!! :rolleyes: :(
 
MikeyG said:
I currently have a new CTR for the weekend. Review to follow on Monday. Downside to this weekend - working through pretty much all of it!! :rolleyes: :(
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A trip to Banbury and back to Swindon via Stow,Burford and Chipping Norton should give you a good feel for the car Mike!!!! :twisted:
 
Scousefella said:
A trip to Banbury and back to Swindon via Stow,Burford and Chipping Norton should give you a good feel for the car Mike!!!! :twisted:
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It'll have to wait for the evening fella. So far I've done 6 miles in it! :rolleyes:


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I do know the roads you mean though fella. There's also a cracking road that goes out the back of Witney and brings you out half way between Burford and Chipping Norton on the A361. Did many fun back road blasts down there in my EP3.
 
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Ok, I've handed the keys back to the FN2 first thing this morning after blagging it for the weekend and my thoughts are below. Now bear with me because its been a while since I drove a CTR and that was Colin's modded one (Hondata, BuddyClub and Injen CAI) but what I have driven since includes an extended drive in the Astra VXR (I used to work for Vauxhall, its inevitable!!), Golf GTi, Focus ST, so that covers the main rivals pretty much (Not had a chance to go in the Renault or the Seat).

First Impressions:

Our demo model at Honda is a Milano GT model with standard 18" wheels. To look at there is no doubt, with the exception of that back end(!!) that it is a striking looking car, low and agressive at the front, sleek from the side, just down right hideous from the back. The hideous comment cannot be said of the interior, my own personal take on it is that its a work of art, very modern, very futuristic, easy to see, use and read. The seats - wow. Better than the old EP3 and at least on a par with the seats in the 30th AE EP3. Supportive, theres no way you're going to fall out of those!!! :lol: The driving position scores far higher than the old EP3 too purely because of the various adjustments you can make to the seat and steering wheel. Anyone should be able to get comfortable in there. My only concern is that for people of say 5ft 11" +, the view of the rev counter can be obscured by the wheel. A minor gripe though. Boot space is immense for this type of car and rear space was a massive improvement too. Nice to see the two tone colour applied to the rear as well. It sort of lifts the interior compared to the old one's all black arrangement.

Positives then: Great driving position, much nicer seats and interior overall, great looking car from the front and the side.
Negatives: Rev counter can be obscured. Hideous rear end! :eek:

First Drive:

Lasted 10 mins unfortunately - picked the car up friday night and drove home. End of!! :lol: :lol: :lol: Had to go out with mates Friday night so unable to get a proper spin in it.

Second Drive:

Lasted 10mins - to work on Saturday morning. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Third Drive:

Right here we go. Third time lucky. Finished work Saturday afternoon, went home, got changed and went out for a blat. I live in West Swindon so you don't have to drive far to be out on the country roads and there are some cracking roads around Swindon to try out the Civic. Headed out towards the M4 Junction 16 and cut across the back roads towards Wroughton, nice open roads, tight bends, sweeping bends and some negative cambers. Impressions when pressing on - planted. More so than the EP3. Whereas the EP3 would be unsettled mid bend on bumpy surfaces the FN2 felt much more compliant, adjustable and confident. The steering is worlds apart compared to the EP3, lets you know much more information and weights up nicely as the speeds increase. One of the bends on my route is a tight, almost 180 degree bend which is taken very slowly. Exiting it in 2nd gear I had my first proper experience of foot to the floor acceleration. Make no mistake, the FN2 is quick but as others have mentioned, because of the smoothed out VTEC changeover it doesn't feel it. The gear change is rifle bolt sharp as per the EP3 and the lever is perfectly positioned aiding the overall driver comfort. The clue is how fast the digital speedo changes, and it changes very very quickly. And the noise, much more race car like than the EP3, rumbly low down and then she screams (that'll be your indication that you are in the VTEC zone if you missed the light!! :lol: ) The distance from the exit of the bend and the 30mph sign heading into Wroughton is about 3/4 mile and I was doing silly speeds before slowing to more sensible limits :oops:

Heading out of Wroughton on the A361 towards Avebury and this has to be one of my favourite roads. Up on the hills, great views (if you're a passenger) and its wide open, see for miles, smooth and just a cracking road to hack down. Keeping an eye out for speed cameras or mobile units I was able to press on at will and cover the ground very quickly. Overtaking slower vehicles was less of a chore compared to the EP3. Whereas I was never confident of overtaking unless I was in VTEC before, with the FN2 it just feels pokier lower down the rev range. I found that because of the increase in torque low down coupled with the lower VTEC point, you could get away with using a higher gear than in the EP3 and still feel confident of pulling off the manoeuvre safely. Yes the headline figures show the torque figure has decreased compared to the old model but it doesn't feel it. The torque and power are just far more accessible and useable than before. Once I reached Avebury, quick pint in the pub and returned home. Big smiles all round.

Fourth Drive:

Tried a different route on Sunday (cracking plan Scouse), Swindon to Banbury. Similar style of roads to Saturday. Only thing to add to Saturdays drive is that I had a near nasty experience when I misjudged braking and felt the back end go light on me :eek: :eek: :eek: Good old VSA reigned that in though (I'm no Jenson Button thats for sure :oops:). If VSA had been off then we'd be registering a new FN2!! :eek: :eek: :lol:

Comparisons:

As I said above, I have driven the main rivals to the FN2 and in my opinion the FN2 is at least as good as the others, in some respects better, in some worse.

Where is it better? If you can excuse the rear end it is the best looking. I thought the VXR was a striking car but the FN2 just about has it licked. Driving position is spot on (for me anyway), I felt like I was sat in it whereas with the Focus and the Astra you feel like you are sat on it. Once again Honda have made a cracking Engine/Gearbox combo. Slick shifting, very direct and that engine note when pressing on..................... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Where does it fall down? Out and out grunt. I knew that would be the case before I jumped in it though. 200ps against the competition isn't exactly mustard cutting. It is a quick car, that goes without saying but against the current competition (Golf GTi excluded - same power), it does lose out, noticeably. The ST and the VXR just feel so much quicker. I know thats the effect of turbo charging but it makes things like overtaking manoeuvres effortless. The FN2 gearbox is a joy to use but just ocassionally you want to breeze past other cars with little effort and its a far easier job in the other cars.

Where is it on a par? The whole hot hatch market has gone soft, creature comforts replacing out and out driving thrills. Here the Civic is on a par with the competition. I've been spoiled since joining the motor trade with some nicely equipped cars (cruise control, climate control, DAB radios, leather etc etc etc etc) and the Civic is definitely up there with the Golf/Focus/Astra with regards toys and gadgets. Some you will use everyday, some you probably won't ever use. But the overall feeling is that the FN2 will now appeal to a far wider audience than the EP3 did.

Conclusion:

I racked up some 180 miles in the FN2 this weekend and had a smile on my face the whole time. The car is a real head turner, certainly has presence and I feel is an improvement on the EP3. Not a huge improvement due to the paultry power increase but taking the car as a whole I feel it is better. If I weren't in the motor trade and was in the market for a hot hatch would I buy one.......................???? Tough one. There are things about each hatch I like. I love the outright pace of the VXR, I love the handling of the ST, I love the quality of the Golf (realistically I'm ruling the Golf out though - too expensive), and I love the looks, engine and gearbox of the FN2. The decision would be down to what deal I could get on each vehicle I guess as I do like each of them. I am on Vauxhall Partners Program from my time working there so I can get a big discount off the VXR but I work for a motor group including a Honda franchise so I could get a nice sum off a Civic. In all honesty I think it would come down to coin tossing between the two and I wouldn't be disappointed with either. :D :cool:
 
Nice Review Mikey. I also noticed about the steering wheel impeding the view on the rev counter and I'm about 5/10-11
 
Excellent review Mikey.:cool:

I am soooo looking forward to getting mine now.:twisted:
 
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