If replacing a clutch is fitting an LSD worth it?

[Scotttomo]

As a few of you might know, on the last service receipt for my Prem EP3, it had an advisory for the clutch, but although I'm not having any issues changing gear or any clutch issues in general, I was thinking of getting it swapped out at my next service for a new one.
Would anyone say this was a good idea to do or actually wait untill I have issues with it before getting it replaced?

If I were to get it replaced I was thinking of budgeting for an LSD to be fitted also, as I've read it's cheaper to do so whilst the clutch is out.
So my question is, is it worth getting an LSD fitted? What are the main benefits and would it greatly improve the handling if the car, which is in my eyes already awesome?

Thanks in advance for reading

Scott

 

[dotty]

In short, Yes.

 

[TypeRiter]

EP3's, IMO, lack a bit of steering feel - an LSD'll sort that out.

The clutch and the differential are cheap (for what they are); labours the killer. It'd make sense - or at least be a hell of a lot cheaper - to get the differential in, whilst the box is out/open - rather than have it done again seperately at another time.

 

[Shifty]

It's been called one of the best mods you can do many a time

 

[Scotttomo]

Thanks for the replies chaps any opinions on the clutch swapping?

Guess I'm going to be getting the LSD done then :lol:

Reputable LSD brand suggestions anyone? Looking at around the £400 mark if possible

Cheers again,

Scott

 

[TypeRiter]

Wavetrac, Quaife, Kaaz, Spoon, OEM Honda (DC5, JDM EP3, and I'm certain the FN2 one'll fit in an EP3 box too.) - if you're not going to go seriously mad on increasing power, as the OEM one's aren't as durable as aftermarket options - but then I've not heard of any of the OEM differentials experiencing problems under 250-260bhp modification.

I'd go Wavetrac or Quaife personally, I think that's due to reading up on them on various forums.

 

[Scotttomo]

Wavetrac, Quaife, Kaaz, Spoon, OEM Honda (DC5, JDM EP3, and I'm certain the FN2 one'll fit in an EP3 box too.) - if you're not going to go seriously mad on increasing power, as the OEM one's aren't as durable as aftermarket options - but then I've not heard of any of the OEM differentials experiencing problems under 250-260bhp modification.

I'd go Wavetrac or Quaife personally, I think that's due to reading up on them on various forums.

Cheers for the info Typeriter

Yeah I'm not planning on going mental on increasing the BHP TBH maybe a GM & Kpro (when I can afford intial cost and insurance ) so the ones you've suggested would be fine

I'll have a look around now for the Wavetrac and Quaife, see if they come up cheapish somewhere

Thanks again

Scott

 

[TypeRiter]

Cheers for the info Typeriter

Yeah I'm not planning on going mental on increasing the BHP TBH maybe a GM & Kpro (when I can afford intial cost and insurance ) so the ones you've suggested would be fine

I'll have a look around now for the Wavetrac and Quaife, see if they come up cheapish somewhere

Thanks again

Scott

If power's not the be all and end all for you - I'd look for an OEM Honda differential, they pop up on the net; cheaper than the aftermarket options too (if we're talking used). Otherwise the OEM Honda one IIRC is more expensive than most of the aftermarket options new.

 

[Scotttomo]

If power's not the be all and end all for you - I'd look for an OEM Honda differential, they pop up on the net; cheaper than the aftermarket options too (if we're talking used). Otherwise the OEM Honda one IIRC is more expensive than most of the aftermarket options new.

Yeah I've just been looking and the honda oem comes in around the same price as the Quaife new! £585 If I remember correctly there was a Quaife one in the FS section but it's probably gone now can't afford at the min anyhoo

Think I'm going to go down the Quaife route TBH, 2nd hand but new if you get me? The thought being, if I do get bitten by the power bug, and I can't see it as I don't have the monies, it'll take me to around 250bhp which I'm sure'll be more than enough!? :lol:
Plus it's british made which is always good in my book and offers a lifetime warranty which is sweet

Now just to whore myself out to amount the correct funds and roberts your fathers brother :lol:

Scott

 

[Earthslug]

Am I right:

LSD controls how much force is applied to each wheel, right?

Having no LSD would make the engine power go to the wheel with least resistance, eg. Right front wheel is on snow and left wheel on dry road, making all the power go to the snowy wheel?
With LSD the power would be forced to the wheel on dry road as well?


I drove a 4x4 several times and I remember it had a locked-differential when needed. When the 4x4 was stuck in mud, you could pull a lever and lock the differential to force equal power to the 4 wheels.
Isn't an LSD more or less the same, but instead of full-lock, just forcing partial power to the wheels?

I more or less understand the use of differential on off-road vehicles, but I don't really understand the benefit on sports-performance cars.

So please correct me if I'm wrong about my LSD knowledge...


How would an LSD help in cornering?
Could anyone please describe in short what would actually change about the steering-feeling? (less oversteer, more stable, better grip when accelerating out of a corner? ... )

 

[Shifty]

I believeeee...

Think about a long, sweeping type right corner. A motorway type corner. The wheel on the offside turns less than the wheel on the nearside. This also means that the nearside wheel is 'more' off the ground, if that makes any sense... It is experiencing less contact, it offers less power to you; however you want to think of it. The LSD helps by re-arranging the amount of torque going to each wheel, therefore giving you more useful torque in the wheels/wheel that are/is more useful.

But I'm pretty much flying by the seat of my pants, and expecting to be corrected :lol: That's just how I understand it!

 

[Jambo ep3]

yeah i think your right, heres what wikipedia has to say about it in alittle more technical terms lol

A limited slip differential (LSD) is a modified or derived type of differential gear arrangement that allows for some difference in angular velocity of the output shafts, but imposes a mechanical bound on the disparity. In an automobile, such limited slip differentials are sometimes used in place of a standard differential, where they convey certain dynamic advantages, at the expense of greater complexity.

hope that helps

J

 

[Earthslug]

I believeeee...

Think about a long, sweeping type right corner. A motorway type corner. The wheel on the offside turns less than the wheel on the nearside. This also means that the nearside wheel is 'more' off the ground, if that makes any sense... It is experiencing less contact, it offers less power to you; however you want to think of it. The LSD helps by re-arranging the amount of torque going to each wheel, therefore giving you more useful torque in the wheels/wheel that are/is more useful.

But I'm pretty much flying by the seat of my pants, and expecting to be corrected :lol: That's just how I understand it!

it seems right to me, I think I can see several cases where an LSD would benefit cornering indeed.

I think most common case is accelerating with too much throttle from complete stop while taking short corners when trying to insert between cars in heavy traffic, the inner wheel can give some smoke while the outer seems to not help your car accelerate. If this is the purpose of the LSD, to force the outer wheel to apply torque to the road as well, then I think I understand now...

 

[Suits]

An LSD will help reduce understeer in a FWD car, it will give more bite in the corner and allow you to get the power down, thus bringing the car round, I suppose if you had a very aggressive LSD it may even increase the chance of oversteer.

It does this by distributing the power to the wheel with the most grip, stopping wheel spin and loosing you grip/control.

I dont see how having an LSD would help you at all in daily town driving though, I can only see it being effective on a track.

HASNIC will be able to describe this best I would have thought.

 

[Scotttomo]

An LSD will help reduce understeer in a FWD car, it will give more bite in the corner and allow you to get the power down, thus bringing the car round, I suppose if you had a very aggressive LSD it may even increase the chance of oversteer.

It does this by distributing the power to the wheel with the most grip, stopping wheel spin and loosing you grip/control.

I dont see how having an LSD would help you at all in daily town driving though, I can only see it being effective on a track.

HASNIC will be able to describe this best I would have thought.

See this is what I was also starting to think.
Would it be a waste of money having one fitted if your not going to be bozzing round on track days on a regular basis?
Sure, if your daily drive regularly consists of twisty country lanes, that you insist on taking at silly speeds then it would be worth it right?
But as you say suits, would it be pointless if your using the car for mostly A to B commuting,or even a lot of motorway driving?! Interesting point fella

 

[Earthslug]

I guess this eliminates every need for fitting an LSD for me then...

 

[Chris.]

After having an LSD in a FWD car, I'd really miss one if I had a car without. They make a massive difference IMO.

 

[HASNIC]

An LSD will help reduce understeer in a FWD car, it will give more bite in the corner and allow you to get the power down, thus bringing the car round, I suppose if you had a very aggressive LSD it may even increase the chance of oversteer.

It does this by distributing the power to the wheel with the most grip, stopping wheel spin and loosing you grip/control.

I dont see how having an LSD would help you at all in daily town driving though, I can only see it being effective on a track.

HASNIC will be able to describe this best I would have thought.

Pretty much sums it up, won't notice it when pottering, but any kind of spirited driving and you'd notice a difference. LSDs only work when cornering, they don't really do anything when driving in a straight line.

Not all LSDs are the same though. The OEM diff is the weakest acting diff, then you're moving up to Quaife and then I think the Wavetrac is a bit tighter/stronger acting than the Quaife and then you're into clutch diffs like Spoon/Kaaz/Cusco and so on. These are the most aggressive, and can be a pain at slow speeds, ie manouvering around a car park. The Kaaz diff in my DC2 would make the car bunny hop at slow speed with decent amounts of lock on. And could get the back to step out on tight roundabouts under heavy power due to how aggressively the front would tuck in.

The OEM diff is 1-way, so only locks under power, I think the Quaife and the Wavetrac are also 1 way. The Clutch types are normally 1.5 way in fwd cars, and this means they lock under power, and lock partially under no power. 2 way diffs which are used in drifting and some circuit cars with RWD, will lock under both acceleration and deceleration.

 

[TypeRiter]

A 2-way diff must take a bit of getting used to initially, in the relevant config (RWD, AWD).

The clutch type diffs are more prone to wear IIRC - due to their plate interaction, when at work. I remember reading that the Spoon diff required servicing every so often - I suppose it'll be the same with all the clutch type diffs.

 

[HASNIC]

Yeah clutch diffs require more looking after than the Quaife/Wavetrac/OEM which are largely fit and forget. More frequent g'box oil changes, but the clutch packs should last a while unless it's only ever used on track, even then you'll get reasonable mileage out of them.

And 2 way diffs will make the rear slide more easily, depends on what you want to use the car for, all drift cars either run a welded diff or a 2-way diff, some race cars will run a 1.5-way or 2-way depending on driver preference a lot of the time.