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P1361 (TDC sensor) and dead battery

E

Eddie Z

Messages
21
My car (2002 ep3 ctr) died on idle the other day and after starting again I got a MIL. I drove home carefully (a couple of minutes only), then checked and cleared the codes. There was a P1361 which I gather is a TDC sensor intermittent signal issue. After this I tried to start the car but the battery was dead. I then charged the battery and started again. No MIL and car was running fine. After a few minutes on idle (waiting for windows to de-fog) the engine cut out again and MIL came on. I took her for a spin anyway and everything seems normal apart from the light. Battery voltage was well above 13V with the engine running so I don't think there is a problem related to charging or the battery.

Now I'm thinking that possibly there is something in the TDC wiring shorted to the ground or possibly the sensor itself is shorted. Is that even possible? I wont have a chance to remove the sensor until hopefully next week.

Has anyone had problems with the TDC sensor or knows how it works/ should work? How can I test it? I found instructions for testing the TDC on a non-type r civic but I have no idea if the wiring is the same.

Also if there is some instruction to replace it, I would very much appreciate it since I have not been able to find one for the K20A2. Is it a must to remove the valve cover in order to get to the TDC sensor?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello, I'm having the same issue on my ep3 ctr. Until now I have changed timing chain, guides, tensioner, TDC sensors, crankshaft sensor and car still dies on idle with that code reporting. Did you resolve problem? Next step for me is to try another ecu... Thanks

Sorry for my bad english, I'm from Serbia
 
Anyone? Could be bad knock sensor causing this and throwing p1361 code and shutting down car? I'm thinking to change mine tomorrow before getting a new ecu...
 
Update: Tried ECU and camshaft sensors from another type r and the car is still shutting down. Check timing again and antoher adjustable cam pulley but nothing. Today I will try to run wires directly from ECU to sensors to see is there a wiring problem. When this first time occurred car cuts off only from a cold start, when engine raises temperature to normal it runs fine but know it's shutting down constantly without rules. I'm running out of ideas any help would be welcome.
 
Hello, I'm still having the same issue.

I tried cleaning the throttle body and IACV because I thought the wandering idle may have something to do with the engine cutting out. I also checked and cleaned the TDC sensor connector. The result was steady idle when warm, but the car still dies after idling a few minutes with check engine light coming on with DTC P1361.

I have now finally ordered the new TDC sensor, but I'm still not convinced that it will fix the problem. I'll be sure to update once I have replaced the sensor.

I read somewhere that someone had the similar trouble code on a civic EX where the reason was camshaft end play. So I will have to check that as well when I pull the valve cover. However they had the engine cutting out on the highway. I have not had any problems while driving, only on idle.
 
I finally managed to replace the TDC sensor and it made no difference. Also checked the valve clearances and camshaft endplay. Fortunately there was no issues there. Now I can't think of anything other than a wiring problem for the sensor.

Lately the car has also died a few times while driving so actually the problem has gotten worse. It looks like exactly the same issue as vladimir has. Did you try running wires from the ECU? Result? Do you have the wiring diagram?

Any suggestions on what to check next are highly appreciated!
 
Sorry for the late respond. I sold the car months ago. Gearbox on my ctr exploded and I didn't manage to find another one for reasonable price so I sold the car for baragin. New owner fitted used gearbox but he is still having problems with cutting off when cold. Did you resolve this problem on your car?
 
I've checked everything I can think of and the problem still exists. I'm taking it to Honda next week so we'll see if they can figure it out. I'll update once I get it back.

I think the guys from the above post have a different problem, since mine is running ok and just cuts out on idle or maybe once a day while driving. But if Honda can't figure it out, I guess I could try a new crank sensor.
 
Just a quick update: They changed the sensor again and said it was fixed. But just as soon as I started the car at the garage and waited for a couple of minutes... It cut out and gave the same code.
A day after this the car got really jerky and eventually wouldn't start. I got a P1362 (TDC sensor no signal) while trying to start it.

I have since then run a new signal wire to the sensor which got rid of the P1362 and car seems to be running much more smoothly. But I still get the cut out on idle when cold.

The dealership has been very helpful in this matter but still no results... I will update again once this is solved.
 
Ok, just a few questions to try help you. Does your Honda in neutral pass by rev limiter at 5500rpm all the way to the 8500rpm when gas pedal is fully pressed? And when cold does it turn on vtec? Sorry for bad english...
 
vladimir said:
Ok, just a few questions to try help you. Does your Honda in neutral pass by rev limiter at 5500rpm all the way to the 8500rpm when gas pedal is fully pressed? And when cold does it turn on vtec? Sorry for bad english...
Click to expand...

Only when car is moving you can rev all the way,when stand still you cant rev over 5500rpm, Honda do this to protect the engine
Vtec wont engage when cold
 
The guys from local Honda called and they had been in touch with the factory for more information. Sadly they had no tips other than to try running new wires from ecu to the TDC sensor and maybe trying a new crank position sensor. I have not tried revving to redline cold and don't really see the point. Do you think there may be a problem with the vtec actuator/solenoid?

Thanks for the suggestions anyway.
 
Just to update: Replaced crank sensor and replaced bad looking engine ground cable... No effect on the problem. New ECU with K-Pro is coming soon.

Since I ran the new TDC signal cable the car has not stalled once while driving, but still does it cold on idle.
 
New ECU has fixed everything! No more stalling and no more MIL :)

I don't know what exactly was the problem, but I think that engine ground cable was the initial culprit. It was very rusty and I measured over 2V voltage difference between the battery and engine ground point. Probably the ECU did not like this since the sensor grounds go to the engine ground...
 
Eddie Z said:
New ECU has fixed everything! No more stalling and no more MIL :)

I don't know what exactly was the problem, but I think that engine ground cable was the initial culprit. It was very rusty and I measured over 2V voltage difference between the battery and engine ground point. Probably the ECU did not like this since the sensor grounds go to the engine ground...
Click to expand...

Where is the engine ground cable located?
 
The engine ground connects to the top of the engine mount on the chain side of the engine, right next to the alternator belt. I remembered wrong, it was actually the gearbox ground that was the worst condition but anyway affected the voltage drop between the valve cover and battery. I also cleaned all the ground contact points in the engine bay so those may have also had an effect.

Anyway after this, I had a nice 0.0 V voltage drop from valve cover to the battery.
 
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