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First of all, go get some popcorn, use the bathroom if you need too, find a comfy chair and wear loose clothing…..this post could take quite some time out of your day!
As a few of you know I’ve been having problems with my FK8 and its gearbox since February this year, and now as I finally find myself with a resolution I’m happy with, I thought I’m long overdue sharing details over what the last 3 to 4 months of my life has been like where discussions related to Honda, Gearboxes and why (oh why) did I buy a FK8 have basically dominated my almost every waking moment.
I bought “Holly” a Championship White Honda Civic Type R GT back in October 2017. She was an ex-demonstrator with just shy of 4500 miles from John Banks Cambridge. The Car build number was R-03344 and registered in August 2017 (so by all accounts is considered an early UK production car with a VIN number <300).
I had initially test driven the car when it had 3500 miles and was completely blown away by the handling, performance and yes, I even liked the styling so much so that I knew I just had to buy one.
My previous car was an Audi A3 2.0TDI Quattro (remapped 170BHP to 200BHP) which I had owned from new in 2006 and so for me moving to the Honda was quite a leap in terms of technology, performance and of course money invested in what was to be my daily driver due to the FK8’s practicality as well as performance appeal.
So impressed with the car I didn’t need to think twice to treat it to Xpel “self-healing” Paint Protection Film (PPF) and Ceramic Coating from Detail Your Eye Candy in Mildenhall, Suffolk. Holly was a real beauty as you can see and I was proud to be one of the early owners of an FK8 out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUW6-bn7fE
However, we now come to the unfortunate gearbox problems that we’ve all heard so much about and indeed that was first noticed by me in February this year.
My gearbox concern was that I was finding it ever increasingly unreliable to get the car to downshift into 4th gear from 5th. At first like many others I thought “is this just me?, am I fully engaging the clutch?, or maybe all Honda’s FK8s are like this?”, but as it was getting more and more frequent and then reading other owners here were seeing similar issues I knew I needed to mention this to John Banks as the car was coming up to 5 months old and I had done just a little over 2000 miles since I owned it.
So I contacted John Banks Cambridge on March 1st 2018 to explain I was a bit worried to be getting these 4th gear lockout issues that some other owners were reported. The initial response was one of surprise, as they had not had any other owners report issues in them and looking at their TSB system notifications there was no advisory from Honda on the gearbox. They also explained the gearbox in the FK8 is almost identical to the FK2 gearbox with the exception of a different 6th gear ratio and no Honda advisories / issues were reported for the FK2 gearbox either.
To their credit though, rather than just kick me down the road they said to bring it in and they would gladly take me out for a test-drive with them to see if they can experience it themselves locking out in 4th gear.
March 8th I agreed to visit the dealership and so along with the Master Tech and Head of Aftersales we went out for a test drive. It was only a few miles outside of Cambridge when the Master Tech took over the driving that the car duly locked him out (twice) in 4th gear. This was the first time they had experienced the issue.
So that very afternoon they reported the issue to Honda and the car was booked in for deeper diagnosis for March 15th which was the first available a loan car (a Jazz!) could be offered.
However, they hoped it would only be literally a day or two so I didn’t worry so much about the serious street credibility damage while driving the John Banks Jazz complete with its full “look at me I am loaner” livery.
March 15th, Honda had requested data from the car while it was locking out in 4th gear to see the oil temperatures pressures, sensors, gear speeds etc. for 30 seconds before the car locked out in 4th and 30 seconds after. They wanted data with both Rev Match turned on and off. 4 snapshots were duly provided to Honda and the “gut feel” from Cambridge was that this was mechanical in nature rather than any electronic gizmo’s causing the lockout.
March 20th, after Honda viewed the lockout data they ask for a full data download of the cars (multiple) ECU data and advised to first swap the gearbox oil and run the spent oil through a fine filter to see if any metal particles can be found. Honda also asked for a “sniff” test of the oil to see if it smelt burnt. Cambridge said they would proceed and hoped the car would be returned to me by March 22nd after the gearbox oil change.
March 22nd, Cambridge call to say unfortunately the car cannot be returned today because as soon as they left the dealership on the road-test after changing the gearbox oil my car immediately locked out in 4th gear – basically while the car whilst stone cold where before they had to get the car and gearbox oil warmed up to replicate the lock out.
Cambridge were able to confirm that no metal particles were found in the old (spent) oil but Honda had asked for it to be bottled up and sent to Swindon for further lab analysis. Cambridge said the gear oil did appear quite dirty (black rather than oily yellow/brown) but we later came to understand this was due to the Carbon used in the guides inside the box and it’s quite normal for the gear oil to be black in appearance.
March 23rd Honda Customer Relations (HCR) now get involved to arrange for me a loan vehicle as Cambridge needed the Jazz back and they had not planned any ramp time for my car after the gearbox oil change so they were literally snookered behind the busy month end sales period and being close so to Easter that they wouldn’t be work further on my car’s diagnosis for a few days.
HCR contacted me and arranged a loan vehicle for my “Halo” Honda Civic Type R which was to be a Vauxhall Mokka (my heart sank) but I was told it was only because of the Easter period and Enterprise Car Rentals who HCR use they literally had nothing better available being so close to the long weekend.
March 27th, Honda’s next move was to ask for video footage of my car locking out in 4th gear. This was now proving hard to do that I hope as during the first couple of test runs it was now deciding to play the “let’s not lock out today” game. Cambridge joked that maybe having a GoPro running inside the car had somehow fixed the issue.
Honda meantime had also reviewed the data from my car and they could confirm a speed mismatch between 5th and 4th on the downshift which was explaining the lockout, it was effectively hitting tooth on tooth. Honda now indicated they next wanted my approval to take the gearbox out and start investigations inside. Cambridge recommended we should get the video footage of the lockout prior to box removal so there could not be any doubt the issue was indeed occurring and the investigation / removal work would be warranty covered.
At this point I confessed that I was really uneasy about the gearbox coming out on a car only 6 months old to me (and 8 months total) and then being cracked open on the bench for diagnosis. I mentioned I would prefer to not be a lab rat and asked if a new gearbox could be fitted as I had heard through the grapevine of one other owner (on here) had been granted this option.
Cambridge explained Honda were more mindful to get to the actual bottom of the issue on my car and both they and Cambridge would both ensure my car was given priority by Honda to find a long term repair the existing box rather than just rush into a replacement that could have a similar issue. Somewhat reluctantly I agreed as naturally I wanted a car fixed for the long term, and didn’t want to find myself back with a new gearbox having the same issue (as the other owner on here did).
April 3rd, a small improvement for me occurs today as Enterprise are able to switch me from a Vauxhall Mokka to slightly less embarrassing 67 plate Insignia (the kicker though was it only had an asthmatic 1.5 engine) but Cambridge also call to confirm they were now finally able to get the video footage of the car locking out and they shared me a copy.
See below, around 13-14 seconds in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKRrlg-3Yc
April 4th, Honda technical also confirm their viewing of the video and authorise the work (under warranty) to remove the box. Honda wanted measurements and photographs of the clutch friction and pressure plates. After this, the gearbox was to be cracked open and similar measurements and photos taken of the gears, synchros and shift forks to be sent back.
April 5th, gearbox was on the bench and components laid out individually and measured (see below), Cambridge confirmed that they while were hoping to find something wrong or not in tolerance that unfortunately everything looked visually correct and within the expected tolerances – Cambridge admitted they were now drawing a bit of a blank.
April 6th, Honda now request more photos and measurements of the gearbox and components. At this stage frustration is creeping in with the Cambridge dealer while my car remains “stuck” on the Master Technicians ramp that they are going to ask Swindon to come and visit the car themselves rather than continue to add to this delay for all involved with the many requests back & forth for measurements and photographs.
My personal frustration levels reach a new high with it now being some 3 weeks without my car on the drive outside and meantime enduring the daily wafty-barge woe of the Vauxhall Insignia all while a large hole remains in my bank account where £30k used to be.
April 9th, I contact the Head of Sales and Director at Cambridge to indicate my frustration with all this diagnosis simply taking too long that if no resolution is forthcoming in the next few days I’d simply need to look at handing the car back to them.
April 10th, Honda now confirm everything looks as it should from all the many photos and measurements sent over and agree to visit my car in person (on Monday 16th April) at the Cambridge dealership with a Senior Honda factory Technician and a representative from Honda Manufacturing for a physical workbench inspection of my cars components.
April 12th, Meantime I hold a face to face meeting with the Sales Director and Head of Aftersales. Everyone is in agreement with disappointment to the time this was taking, and the Sales Director agreed to personally push Honda to get a resolution plan in place after the HUK visit on the 16th. Not least because Cambridge themselves were losing revenue from other jobs they could be billing out on the ramp my car was taking up while stuck up there. Also discussed was another push by us all for a new gearbox rather than continue this diagnosis and the Sales Director said I could have his FK8 demonstrator if after Honda’s visit I wasn’t back in my car by the following weekend.
April 16th, Honda Technical and Manufacturing visit my car. Arriving at 11am and on the road again by 3pm. After putting all the gears under their microscope they found 2nd gear to be quite badly worn and 4th gear partially worn.
Honda commented their surprise that we weren't actually having any 2nd gear problems as this was much worse than 4th. They had expected the excessive 2nd gear wear was likely due to the car's early life as a demonstrator and potentially due to mechanically unsympathetic test-pilots. The 4th gear their view was also likely due to combination of similar early test-pilots unsympathetic behaviour but also a possible manufacturing issue and that they would take the worn parts from my box back to Honda for further analysis.
The HUK resolution plan was to repair my box by replacing the 2nd and 4th gears along with synchros on 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. Honda authorised all the parts and labour to be covered under warranty and they would be sent from the factory that very week.
Honda and Cambridge also agreed a replacement of the gear oil replacement after 1000 miles to check there is no "swarf" in the gear oil to confirm the repair was a good one. Cambridge indicated they were hopeful to get me back in my car back by Friday 20th April and worst case Monday 23rd. Cambridge said they would call me as soon as the necessary parts arrived and when assembly commenced.
April 18th - bad news. Cambridge confirms that while most of the parts needed to repair my box are on their way from the factory, however unfortunately the 4th gear is currently out-of-stock until May 31st. We are left wondering why? is the 4th gear in in high demand? Or has it been pulled due to some issue in 4th gear manufacturing?.
Cambridge explain they are now liaising with Honda UK to have a 4th gear pulled from the production line so we’re not left waiting until the end of May to start the rebuild.
April 19th, John Banks confirm a 4th gear has been duly pulled from production and now being sent via courier. Due to this further delay I decide to “call in” the offer from the Cambridge Sales Director and kindly he keeps his end of the bargain and I can have his Polished Metal FK8 Demonstrator as I still don’t have my car back (this is about the only good news I feel I have had in a long time).
Cambridge now provide an ETA of April 27th for me to get the car back as they do not want to rush the rebuild and would also like to have a full day to test drive the car rebuilt. I’m happy as I can at least enjoy the Sales Directors FK8 in the meantime.
April 20th, Insignia goes back and I drive home in the sales directors FK8, first time I’ve driven a FK8 in now almost 5 weeks. I’m told when I pick it up that the 4th gear for my car still hasn’t yet arrived from Swindon which is a little surprise (these things are normally overnight) but say they expecting it Monday.
April 24th - more bad news. My replacement 4th gear did not arrive on Monday as expected. It was incorrectly posted to Panasonic! Cambridge had actually received on Friday (20th) a Panasonic laptop which they thought was a new diagnostic machine to replace one they had requested a repair on. It turns out that due to a courier “foobar” TNT had sent my 4th gear to Panasonic and actually a broken diagnosis machine to John Banks. Honestly, you couldn’t make this up!. When did a black cat cross my path and why didn’t I drop kick it when it did? Cambridge tell me the 4th gear is packaged up at Panasonic and should arrive by Wednesday (25th) and finally the rebuild can commence.
April 28th, update from Cambridge is received; gearbox is rebuilt, but they are not happy with the float (freeplay) tolerance and feels it all feels too tight to continue. The minimum amount of free-play is 0.04mm and maximum 0.21mm and with the supplied (standard) 1.2mm shim it is just too tight and they worry it will just wear again. Cambridge contact Honda for a replacement/thinner shim.
Thoughts are now whether we found the problem if indeed the standard shims are proving there is too little float in the gearbox and everything is just too tight?
April 30th, Honda are struggling to find any thinner shims for my gearbox, they only have the standard 1.2mm shims on the production line. Honda Racing (who I’m told manufacture the shims) are now using a new shim provider who only produce 1.2mm shims.
May 1st, Cambridge call to say they have now located a thinner 0.6mm shim which they thought might create too much float (play) in the gearbox, however when fitted the tolerance measures at 0.18mm so is within spec. Honda confirm they are happy with this measurement and agree Cambridge can complete the rebuild and return the gearbox to the car. Cambridge plan to test drive the car for a day and get the car back to me later this week.
May 3rd, gearbox is built back-up and returned to the car. Cambridge confirms the car is driving really nicely now, and has probably the best gearbox feel they’ve experienced with any FK8 and confirm I can finally the next morning pick the car up.
May 4th – so FINALLY after 50 Days!!! I get the keys back to my FK8 and I drive Holly home. Cambridge confirm they want the car back after 1000 miles to drop the gearbox oil and check for metal as agreed with Honda just in case there is any wear but I should now have many happy miles of motoring ahead.
My initial thoughts on driving the car was that it did feel a lot smoother, the FK8 demonstrator (Sales Directors car) certainly felt a lot tighter through the box where my repaired on feels much more relaxed, silky and buttery through the gear changes. Although it’s certainly not floppy in the sense I had lost any confidence in the gear change. It will take some getting used to but my initial feedback was this fix was a Good ‘Un.
- And so that’s the end of it right? Well not quite……..
I now looked forward to a long weekend away with the Lads to Europe as part of our annual pilgrimage to Germany. Previous years I have taken my Lotus so I thought it would be a nice change to drive the 500 or so miles down in the Honda and should all be well with the gearbox maybe do a sticker lap or two around the track. After all, this is a car whose whole DNA is built on the track and developed for lapping the Nordschliefe.
Prior to leaving I had covered 200-300 miles in the UK before we set off for Germany on May 25th. And I was initially pleased to report no problems on the journey albeit most of the 5 hours driving through France, Netherlands, Belgium into Germany was sat with ACC switched on and 6th gear cruising.
However gearbox disaster struck me the day after we arrive. The car was now popping out of (not holding onto) 4th gear and doing it every time you got on the gas in 4th gear. I was gutted, I was some 600 miles from home in a car I so desperately wanted to be fixed for the long-term yet found myself struck down with gearbox issues.
I contacted Cambridge while I was away in Germany and sent over this video footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khmt5uKa03k
Cambridge confirmed that as long as the other gears were working fine it would be ok for me to Nurse the car home all the way back to the UK. They said I could call Honda Europe if I wanted but if I didn’t fancy the car being recovered all the way home on a flat-bed truck they said it would be ok to drive home skipping 4th.
Cambridge also confirmed Honda Technical from Swindon would be at the dealership as soon as I returned as this was a whole brand new type of fault they had not seen before with any FK8 gearbox.
At this point, I’m at my wits end with it all, I didn’t really care for more investigations and explained to Cambridge time was now up for me with this particular gearbox and I was insistent that a new gearbox needed to be fitted to my car when I got back.
In all honesty I could’ve rejected the car there and then, but such is my patience (of a saint so it seems) and that I just wanted my car fixed so I was happy offer Cambridge and Honda a 2nd (yet final) chance to rectify the cars fault, but only on the condition a new gearbox was to be provided.
May 31st, I arrive back (knackered) at Cambridge having returned from Germany the previous evening and leave my car with them again, Cambridge give me a HR-v black-edition demonstrator. I’m told Swindon are expected around 11am but they are “not” bringing a new gearbox with them as they need to see what this latest issue is before they will authorise anything further.
I receive a call later that afternoon to say they have removed the gearbox and (again) cracked it open. They confirmed they had quickly found the fault which had ruined my whole European trip.
It was caused by a sleeve between the 3rd and 4th gear being incorrectly fitted upside down, which meant it did not expose the whole of the 4th gear (by about 2mm) which caused excessive wear to the 4th gear and caused the popping out failure. Cambridge explained the issue would’ve been effectively occurring as soon as I left them on May 4th as it was already unbeknownst to us all wearing itself down to failure.
Honda Technical (Swindon) agreed this sleeve positioning was a very easy mistake to have made. The sleeve was quite tight in the correct placement and felt slightly looser the other way around. With all the tightness concerns on these gearboxes the thinking was to mount it in the slightly looser position.
The Honda technician himself even confessed that as the sleeve has no indicators to say which way round it goes he too would’ve made the same mistake. Further the technical drawings from Honda on how to fit the sleeve had no clarity on how the sleeve was to be fitted and the diagram was sufficiently poor quality.
Honda Technical returned to base with what both I and Cambridge thought was a view to authorise a replacement gearbox to be sent out for me the next day.
And then next day in a final and defining move for me and this particular car, Honda UK arrive at the decision that the cost of a new gearbox (some £6000 + labour for fitment) would not be approved by them but instead would need to be met by the dealer as the effectively the sleeve fault was down to them despite agreement from the Technical department that it was a very easy mistake to have made. Honda would only authorise the replacement parts (new 4th gear and synchros) under warranty.
I really felt for Honda Cambridge considering all their ramp time, labour, individual efforts, diagnosis and willingness to work with Honda to get to the root-cause on my car and here they now are left with the unenviable task of explaining my car was going to be repaired a 2nd time knowing I would reject the vehicle if it did not get a new gearbox.
Cambridge agreed the best outcome for both of us was to reject this car and arrangement made with both Honda and Cambridge supporting me into a brand new FK8 which I picked up on Friday 15th June. My original car has since been repaired, had no further gearbox issues since and now up for sale.
My summarising thoughts on all this;
• I’m exhausted, this has literally dominated life since February this year. It’s been a real heartache to have such a turbulent ride with my very first Honda.
• I’m excited and happy to have a shiny new FK8 now sat outside and looking back I can’t help but feel my main mistake in hindsight was buying a demonstrator at a discounted price rather than just pay that bit extra last November for new one.
• I’m hopeful the new car won’t have a gearbox issue being a much later UK build (VIN >4400) but only time will tell but for now I’m optimistic the new one is a good one.
• I feel there’s something going on with these gearbox shims and seemingly early build cars that Cambridge managed to diagnose with my Car. Purely speculation on my part but I wonder if the supplier originally producing shims were found to be of inconsistent quality and/or the dimensions were not quite right. It is strange that only 4th gear seems to have worn to lockout while others owners are reporting the crunching from 1st to 2nd.
• I can’t be more grateful to my local Honda dealer John Banks Cambridge and all the team there. All along the process they’ve kept me informed, even on the annoyingly frustrating stuff and really bad news days.
We all wish this could’ve been a whole lot better but ultimately they only able to do what Honda UK / Technical / Customer Relations authorise them to do. They were good in the later stages to put me in a much nicer car than HCR/Enterprise could offer (with the FK8 and HR-v) and the team were always available on their mobile phones and email when I had questions or was looking for updates.
• I’m now very much looking forward to the first 1000 or so miles in “comfort” mode in terms of my relationship with my new FK8. Wish me luck!
Thanks for reading, sorry it was a really long one. (TL; DR?),
cheers Cookie (still feeling the Honda Love for what is a truly exceptional motor).
As a few of you know I’ve been having problems with my FK8 and its gearbox since February this year, and now as I finally find myself with a resolution I’m happy with, I thought I’m long overdue sharing details over what the last 3 to 4 months of my life has been like where discussions related to Honda, Gearboxes and why (oh why) did I buy a FK8 have basically dominated my almost every waking moment.
I bought “Holly” a Championship White Honda Civic Type R GT back in October 2017. She was an ex-demonstrator with just shy of 4500 miles from John Banks Cambridge. The Car build number was R-03344 and registered in August 2017 (so by all accounts is considered an early UK production car with a VIN number <300).
I had initially test driven the car when it had 3500 miles and was completely blown away by the handling, performance and yes, I even liked the styling so much so that I knew I just had to buy one.
My previous car was an Audi A3 2.0TDI Quattro (remapped 170BHP to 200BHP) which I had owned from new in 2006 and so for me moving to the Honda was quite a leap in terms of technology, performance and of course money invested in what was to be my daily driver due to the FK8’s practicality as well as performance appeal.
So impressed with the car I didn’t need to think twice to treat it to Xpel “self-healing” Paint Protection Film (PPF) and Ceramic Coating from Detail Your Eye Candy in Mildenhall, Suffolk. Holly was a real beauty as you can see and I was proud to be one of the early owners of an FK8 out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBUW6-bn7fE
However, we now come to the unfortunate gearbox problems that we’ve all heard so much about and indeed that was first noticed by me in February this year.
My gearbox concern was that I was finding it ever increasingly unreliable to get the car to downshift into 4th gear from 5th. At first like many others I thought “is this just me?, am I fully engaging the clutch?, or maybe all Honda’s FK8s are like this?”, but as it was getting more and more frequent and then reading other owners here were seeing similar issues I knew I needed to mention this to John Banks as the car was coming up to 5 months old and I had done just a little over 2000 miles since I owned it.
So I contacted John Banks Cambridge on March 1st 2018 to explain I was a bit worried to be getting these 4th gear lockout issues that some other owners were reported. The initial response was one of surprise, as they had not had any other owners report issues in them and looking at their TSB system notifications there was no advisory from Honda on the gearbox. They also explained the gearbox in the FK8 is almost identical to the FK2 gearbox with the exception of a different 6th gear ratio and no Honda advisories / issues were reported for the FK2 gearbox either.
To their credit though, rather than just kick me down the road they said to bring it in and they would gladly take me out for a test-drive with them to see if they can experience it themselves locking out in 4th gear.
March 8th I agreed to visit the dealership and so along with the Master Tech and Head of Aftersales we went out for a test drive. It was only a few miles outside of Cambridge when the Master Tech took over the driving that the car duly locked him out (twice) in 4th gear. This was the first time they had experienced the issue.
So that very afternoon they reported the issue to Honda and the car was booked in for deeper diagnosis for March 15th which was the first available a loan car (a Jazz!) could be offered.
However, they hoped it would only be literally a day or two so I didn’t worry so much about the serious street credibility damage while driving the John Banks Jazz complete with its full “look at me I am loaner” livery.
March 15th, Honda had requested data from the car while it was locking out in 4th gear to see the oil temperatures pressures, sensors, gear speeds etc. for 30 seconds before the car locked out in 4th and 30 seconds after. They wanted data with both Rev Match turned on and off. 4 snapshots were duly provided to Honda and the “gut feel” from Cambridge was that this was mechanical in nature rather than any electronic gizmo’s causing the lockout.
March 20th, after Honda viewed the lockout data they ask for a full data download of the cars (multiple) ECU data and advised to first swap the gearbox oil and run the spent oil through a fine filter to see if any metal particles can be found. Honda also asked for a “sniff” test of the oil to see if it smelt burnt. Cambridge said they would proceed and hoped the car would be returned to me by March 22nd after the gearbox oil change.
March 22nd, Cambridge call to say unfortunately the car cannot be returned today because as soon as they left the dealership on the road-test after changing the gearbox oil my car immediately locked out in 4th gear – basically while the car whilst stone cold where before they had to get the car and gearbox oil warmed up to replicate the lock out.
Cambridge were able to confirm that no metal particles were found in the old (spent) oil but Honda had asked for it to be bottled up and sent to Swindon for further lab analysis. Cambridge said the gear oil did appear quite dirty (black rather than oily yellow/brown) but we later came to understand this was due to the Carbon used in the guides inside the box and it’s quite normal for the gear oil to be black in appearance.
March 23rd Honda Customer Relations (HCR) now get involved to arrange for me a loan vehicle as Cambridge needed the Jazz back and they had not planned any ramp time for my car after the gearbox oil change so they were literally snookered behind the busy month end sales period and being close so to Easter that they wouldn’t be work further on my car’s diagnosis for a few days.
HCR contacted me and arranged a loan vehicle for my “Halo” Honda Civic Type R which was to be a Vauxhall Mokka (my heart sank) but I was told it was only because of the Easter period and Enterprise Car Rentals who HCR use they literally had nothing better available being so close to the long weekend.
March 27th, Honda’s next move was to ask for video footage of my car locking out in 4th gear. This was now proving hard to do that I hope as during the first couple of test runs it was now deciding to play the “let’s not lock out today” game. Cambridge joked that maybe having a GoPro running inside the car had somehow fixed the issue.
Honda meantime had also reviewed the data from my car and they could confirm a speed mismatch between 5th and 4th on the downshift which was explaining the lockout, it was effectively hitting tooth on tooth. Honda now indicated they next wanted my approval to take the gearbox out and start investigations inside. Cambridge recommended we should get the video footage of the lockout prior to box removal so there could not be any doubt the issue was indeed occurring and the investigation / removal work would be warranty covered.
At this point I confessed that I was really uneasy about the gearbox coming out on a car only 6 months old to me (and 8 months total) and then being cracked open on the bench for diagnosis. I mentioned I would prefer to not be a lab rat and asked if a new gearbox could be fitted as I had heard through the grapevine of one other owner (on here) had been granted this option.
Cambridge explained Honda were more mindful to get to the actual bottom of the issue on my car and both they and Cambridge would both ensure my car was given priority by Honda to find a long term repair the existing box rather than just rush into a replacement that could have a similar issue. Somewhat reluctantly I agreed as naturally I wanted a car fixed for the long term, and didn’t want to find myself back with a new gearbox having the same issue (as the other owner on here did).
April 3rd, a small improvement for me occurs today as Enterprise are able to switch me from a Vauxhall Mokka to slightly less embarrassing 67 plate Insignia (the kicker though was it only had an asthmatic 1.5 engine) but Cambridge also call to confirm they were now finally able to get the video footage of the car locking out and they shared me a copy.
See below, around 13-14 seconds in.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiKRrlg-3Yc
April 4th, Honda technical also confirm their viewing of the video and authorise the work (under warranty) to remove the box. Honda wanted measurements and photographs of the clutch friction and pressure plates. After this, the gearbox was to be cracked open and similar measurements and photos taken of the gears, synchros and shift forks to be sent back.
April 5th, gearbox was on the bench and components laid out individually and measured (see below), Cambridge confirmed that they while were hoping to find something wrong or not in tolerance that unfortunately everything looked visually correct and within the expected tolerances – Cambridge admitted they were now drawing a bit of a blank.
April 6th, Honda now request more photos and measurements of the gearbox and components. At this stage frustration is creeping in with the Cambridge dealer while my car remains “stuck” on the Master Technicians ramp that they are going to ask Swindon to come and visit the car themselves rather than continue to add to this delay for all involved with the many requests back & forth for measurements and photographs.
My personal frustration levels reach a new high with it now being some 3 weeks without my car on the drive outside and meantime enduring the daily wafty-barge woe of the Vauxhall Insignia all while a large hole remains in my bank account where £30k used to be.
April 9th, I contact the Head of Sales and Director at Cambridge to indicate my frustration with all this diagnosis simply taking too long that if no resolution is forthcoming in the next few days I’d simply need to look at handing the car back to them.
April 10th, Honda now confirm everything looks as it should from all the many photos and measurements sent over and agree to visit my car in person (on Monday 16th April) at the Cambridge dealership with a Senior Honda factory Technician and a representative from Honda Manufacturing for a physical workbench inspection of my cars components.
April 12th, Meantime I hold a face to face meeting with the Sales Director and Head of Aftersales. Everyone is in agreement with disappointment to the time this was taking, and the Sales Director agreed to personally push Honda to get a resolution plan in place after the HUK visit on the 16th. Not least because Cambridge themselves were losing revenue from other jobs they could be billing out on the ramp my car was taking up while stuck up there. Also discussed was another push by us all for a new gearbox rather than continue this diagnosis and the Sales Director said I could have his FK8 demonstrator if after Honda’s visit I wasn’t back in my car by the following weekend.
April 16th, Honda Technical and Manufacturing visit my car. Arriving at 11am and on the road again by 3pm. After putting all the gears under their microscope they found 2nd gear to be quite badly worn and 4th gear partially worn.
Honda commented their surprise that we weren't actually having any 2nd gear problems as this was much worse than 4th. They had expected the excessive 2nd gear wear was likely due to the car's early life as a demonstrator and potentially due to mechanically unsympathetic test-pilots. The 4th gear their view was also likely due to combination of similar early test-pilots unsympathetic behaviour but also a possible manufacturing issue and that they would take the worn parts from my box back to Honda for further analysis.
The HUK resolution plan was to repair my box by replacing the 2nd and 4th gears along with synchros on 1st and 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears. Honda authorised all the parts and labour to be covered under warranty and they would be sent from the factory that very week.
Honda and Cambridge also agreed a replacement of the gear oil replacement after 1000 miles to check there is no "swarf" in the gear oil to confirm the repair was a good one. Cambridge indicated they were hopeful to get me back in my car back by Friday 20th April and worst case Monday 23rd. Cambridge said they would call me as soon as the necessary parts arrived and when assembly commenced.
April 18th - bad news. Cambridge confirms that while most of the parts needed to repair my box are on their way from the factory, however unfortunately the 4th gear is currently out-of-stock until May 31st. We are left wondering why? is the 4th gear in in high demand? Or has it been pulled due to some issue in 4th gear manufacturing?.
Cambridge explain they are now liaising with Honda UK to have a 4th gear pulled from the production line so we’re not left waiting until the end of May to start the rebuild.
April 19th, John Banks confirm a 4th gear has been duly pulled from production and now being sent via courier. Due to this further delay I decide to “call in” the offer from the Cambridge Sales Director and kindly he keeps his end of the bargain and I can have his Polished Metal FK8 Demonstrator as I still don’t have my car back (this is about the only good news I feel I have had in a long time).
Cambridge now provide an ETA of April 27th for me to get the car back as they do not want to rush the rebuild and would also like to have a full day to test drive the car rebuilt. I’m happy as I can at least enjoy the Sales Directors FK8 in the meantime.
April 20th, Insignia goes back and I drive home in the sales directors FK8, first time I’ve driven a FK8 in now almost 5 weeks. I’m told when I pick it up that the 4th gear for my car still hasn’t yet arrived from Swindon which is a little surprise (these things are normally overnight) but say they expecting it Monday.
April 24th - more bad news. My replacement 4th gear did not arrive on Monday as expected. It was incorrectly posted to Panasonic! Cambridge had actually received on Friday (20th) a Panasonic laptop which they thought was a new diagnostic machine to replace one they had requested a repair on. It turns out that due to a courier “foobar” TNT had sent my 4th gear to Panasonic and actually a broken diagnosis machine to John Banks. Honestly, you couldn’t make this up!. When did a black cat cross my path and why didn’t I drop kick it when it did? Cambridge tell me the 4th gear is packaged up at Panasonic and should arrive by Wednesday (25th) and finally the rebuild can commence.
April 28th, update from Cambridge is received; gearbox is rebuilt, but they are not happy with the float (freeplay) tolerance and feels it all feels too tight to continue. The minimum amount of free-play is 0.04mm and maximum 0.21mm and with the supplied (standard) 1.2mm shim it is just too tight and they worry it will just wear again. Cambridge contact Honda for a replacement/thinner shim.
Thoughts are now whether we found the problem if indeed the standard shims are proving there is too little float in the gearbox and everything is just too tight?
April 30th, Honda are struggling to find any thinner shims for my gearbox, they only have the standard 1.2mm shims on the production line. Honda Racing (who I’m told manufacture the shims) are now using a new shim provider who only produce 1.2mm shims.
May 1st, Cambridge call to say they have now located a thinner 0.6mm shim which they thought might create too much float (play) in the gearbox, however when fitted the tolerance measures at 0.18mm so is within spec. Honda confirm they are happy with this measurement and agree Cambridge can complete the rebuild and return the gearbox to the car. Cambridge plan to test drive the car for a day and get the car back to me later this week.
May 3rd, gearbox is built back-up and returned to the car. Cambridge confirms the car is driving really nicely now, and has probably the best gearbox feel they’ve experienced with any FK8 and confirm I can finally the next morning pick the car up.
May 4th – so FINALLY after 50 Days!!! I get the keys back to my FK8 and I drive Holly home. Cambridge confirm they want the car back after 1000 miles to drop the gearbox oil and check for metal as agreed with Honda just in case there is any wear but I should now have many happy miles of motoring ahead.
My initial thoughts on driving the car was that it did feel a lot smoother, the FK8 demonstrator (Sales Directors car) certainly felt a lot tighter through the box where my repaired on feels much more relaxed, silky and buttery through the gear changes. Although it’s certainly not floppy in the sense I had lost any confidence in the gear change. It will take some getting used to but my initial feedback was this fix was a Good ‘Un.
- And so that’s the end of it right? Well not quite……..
I now looked forward to a long weekend away with the Lads to Europe as part of our annual pilgrimage to Germany. Previous years I have taken my Lotus so I thought it would be a nice change to drive the 500 or so miles down in the Honda and should all be well with the gearbox maybe do a sticker lap or two around the track. After all, this is a car whose whole DNA is built on the track and developed for lapping the Nordschliefe.
Prior to leaving I had covered 200-300 miles in the UK before we set off for Germany on May 25th. And I was initially pleased to report no problems on the journey albeit most of the 5 hours driving through France, Netherlands, Belgium into Germany was sat with ACC switched on and 6th gear cruising.
However gearbox disaster struck me the day after we arrive. The car was now popping out of (not holding onto) 4th gear and doing it every time you got on the gas in 4th gear. I was gutted, I was some 600 miles from home in a car I so desperately wanted to be fixed for the long-term yet found myself struck down with gearbox issues.
I contacted Cambridge while I was away in Germany and sent over this video footage
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khmt5uKa03k
Cambridge confirmed that as long as the other gears were working fine it would be ok for me to Nurse the car home all the way back to the UK. They said I could call Honda Europe if I wanted but if I didn’t fancy the car being recovered all the way home on a flat-bed truck they said it would be ok to drive home skipping 4th.
Cambridge also confirmed Honda Technical from Swindon would be at the dealership as soon as I returned as this was a whole brand new type of fault they had not seen before with any FK8 gearbox.
At this point, I’m at my wits end with it all, I didn’t really care for more investigations and explained to Cambridge time was now up for me with this particular gearbox and I was insistent that a new gearbox needed to be fitted to my car when I got back.
In all honesty I could’ve rejected the car there and then, but such is my patience (of a saint so it seems) and that I just wanted my car fixed so I was happy offer Cambridge and Honda a 2nd (yet final) chance to rectify the cars fault, but only on the condition a new gearbox was to be provided.
May 31st, I arrive back (knackered) at Cambridge having returned from Germany the previous evening and leave my car with them again, Cambridge give me a HR-v black-edition demonstrator. I’m told Swindon are expected around 11am but they are “not” bringing a new gearbox with them as they need to see what this latest issue is before they will authorise anything further.
I receive a call later that afternoon to say they have removed the gearbox and (again) cracked it open. They confirmed they had quickly found the fault which had ruined my whole European trip.
It was caused by a sleeve between the 3rd and 4th gear being incorrectly fitted upside down, which meant it did not expose the whole of the 4th gear (by about 2mm) which caused excessive wear to the 4th gear and caused the popping out failure. Cambridge explained the issue would’ve been effectively occurring as soon as I left them on May 4th as it was already unbeknownst to us all wearing itself down to failure.
Honda Technical (Swindon) agreed this sleeve positioning was a very easy mistake to have made. The sleeve was quite tight in the correct placement and felt slightly looser the other way around. With all the tightness concerns on these gearboxes the thinking was to mount it in the slightly looser position.
The Honda technician himself even confessed that as the sleeve has no indicators to say which way round it goes he too would’ve made the same mistake. Further the technical drawings from Honda on how to fit the sleeve had no clarity on how the sleeve was to be fitted and the diagram was sufficiently poor quality.
Honda Technical returned to base with what both I and Cambridge thought was a view to authorise a replacement gearbox to be sent out for me the next day.
And then next day in a final and defining move for me and this particular car, Honda UK arrive at the decision that the cost of a new gearbox (some £6000 + labour for fitment) would not be approved by them but instead would need to be met by the dealer as the effectively the sleeve fault was down to them despite agreement from the Technical department that it was a very easy mistake to have made. Honda would only authorise the replacement parts (new 4th gear and synchros) under warranty.
I really felt for Honda Cambridge considering all their ramp time, labour, individual efforts, diagnosis and willingness to work with Honda to get to the root-cause on my car and here they now are left with the unenviable task of explaining my car was going to be repaired a 2nd time knowing I would reject the vehicle if it did not get a new gearbox.
Cambridge agreed the best outcome for both of us was to reject this car and arrangement made with both Honda and Cambridge supporting me into a brand new FK8 which I picked up on Friday 15th June. My original car has since been repaired, had no further gearbox issues since and now up for sale.
My summarising thoughts on all this;
• I’m exhausted, this has literally dominated life since February this year. It’s been a real heartache to have such a turbulent ride with my very first Honda.
• I’m excited and happy to have a shiny new FK8 now sat outside and looking back I can’t help but feel my main mistake in hindsight was buying a demonstrator at a discounted price rather than just pay that bit extra last November for new one.
• I’m hopeful the new car won’t have a gearbox issue being a much later UK build (VIN >4400) but only time will tell but for now I’m optimistic the new one is a good one.
• I feel there’s something going on with these gearbox shims and seemingly early build cars that Cambridge managed to diagnose with my Car. Purely speculation on my part but I wonder if the supplier originally producing shims were found to be of inconsistent quality and/or the dimensions were not quite right. It is strange that only 4th gear seems to have worn to lockout while others owners are reporting the crunching from 1st to 2nd.
• I can’t be more grateful to my local Honda dealer John Banks Cambridge and all the team there. All along the process they’ve kept me informed, even on the annoyingly frustrating stuff and really bad news days.
We all wish this could’ve been a whole lot better but ultimately they only able to do what Honda UK / Technical / Customer Relations authorise them to do. They were good in the later stages to put me in a much nicer car than HCR/Enterprise could offer (with the FK8 and HR-v) and the team were always available on their mobile phones and email when I had questions or was looking for updates.
• I’m now very much looking forward to the first 1000 or so miles in “comfort” mode in terms of my relationship with my new FK8. Wish me luck!
Thanks for reading, sorry it was a really long one. (TL; DR?),
cheers Cookie (still feeling the Honda Love for what is a truly exceptional motor).
