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Custom prototype induction kit! R-spec **UPDATE**page 1

E

Earthslug

Messages
549
Hello everyone,

let's keep things short: As I find prices on induction kits too high for what you get, I decided to take matters in own hands and build one myself!

I took the designs of a well known overpriced kit in consideration and started to make a prototype, based upon, not a copy or replica.

Let's go to work!


Using some basic materials as fibreglass, epoxy+hardener, aluminium foil, cardboard and tape, I started out of the nothing.

Here we see the filter (JC60/67 maxogen filter), a silicone T coupler and a mould. The aluminium foil is used to replace epoxy remover which is quite expensive.


Lightweight fibreglass, and yes, it IS lightweight @ only 225grammes/square metre making it almost equal to more exotic materials as kevlar and carbon fiber.


2 layers of fibreglass are used to make the prototype.


Here we see the first result of the prototype airbox, the actual result was a surprice as no vacuüm moulding was used! It was still quite smooth, more than good enough to continue the works.


Speaks for itself, the intake pipe, using same advanced technologies (cardbox, alu-foil and tape) I designed a 3" tube as intake.


Placing the pipe under 45° angle to clear several engine bay components,


Using a marker, a hand operated milling cutter, tape and a semi-round shape file tool, I made a hole, fitting the intake to the airbox.


Not perfect yet, but I'm pretty happy with the results so far.

The overall weight so far is 800grammes, and that's because the silicone coupler weighs 200grammes. If I had taken another filter with 3" coupler (my mistake there), the silicone T coupler wouldn't have been required, saving me 200 grammes and making the final result around 800grammes including ducting and clamps, making it lightweight like the carbon fiber type of box.

However, this is only a prototype and I'll try making a V2 in the future, making it even better, and perhaps making more of them if I could find anyone willing to buy one. I have enough fibreglass to build perhaps 8 more... so if anyone interested, please let me know :cool:
If anyone could provide me with some close up pictures of the real model, every angle, inside out and with measurements that would be helpful because I had to guess alot of the dimensions.

Now the bad news!
Because I go on holiday (the lady insisted!), I won't be able to complete this prototype within this month. First test should be done by the end of december.

Sure I'll keep you guys up to date.

------------------------------------
UPDATE 17APRIL 2011:

Okay, after a long delay we finally managed to complete the prototype. It's appearance isn't that great :) But it's a fully hand made, so that justifies for it's looks :)

Here we see the rough completion of the box

And below it's been fitted on the car.


Note this is not the final mounting, but we ran out of time and wanted to take it for a ride, so some tape and rope to fix it quickly!


Now what matters most: The performance!
*lightweight, weighing under 800grammes!
*Idle rpm was way too low at first, nearly stalling the engine, but after a few miles, seems the car has adapted to the changes, runs smooth now.
*Slight but feelable torque increase between 4000 - 5800
*Feelable more power from 6000 - 8000
*Throttle response increased a fair bit, making the car more aggressive, especially in vtec
*Power dip at vtec changeover almost completely gone, (didn't expect this one to happen!!!)
*No sound increase at all, except in vtec where the car screams a little more than before.


So, finally costing around 120£, I'd say it's worth every penny!
I'll try make a sound clip some day and will enjoy the power-dip eliminationn for now, until the car gets mapped :) I'm curious what power to see on the dyno...


Note I have still an RBC to fit, but I'll leave that for later, right before mapping.
-----------------------------------
UPDATE 18 APRIL 2011:

Won't have dyno in the near future, but I can do a datalog using my OBDII scantool.

So I did, here's a comparison from two 3th gear pulls.
Started at around 30km/u and full throttle!


There clearly is an improvement in performance, car hits 30-100 a sec faster.


I did a 0-100km/u (0-60Mph) run at under 7sec (6.68 to be precise according to the log)
I wouldn't compare those 2 as they were very different circumstances.

Still I put them in graph...

A under 7sec is not bad I'd say.

For not wasting my tires, I launched at only 2300RPM.
Better times might be possible by launching higher

Souclip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXWCX1mZ3lY
 
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Love it.

Home made FTW. People wax lyrical about amateur professors in sheds designing and building all manner of trinkets and home cookery etc.

More car mods should be attempted at home. If done properly then there is zero reason why not to apart from scene points.
 
Captain Redbeard said:
Good luck. :eek:

Lots of car parts are too expensive but it doesn't mean you should just start making them yourself. :lol:
Click to expand...

I disagree.

I'm going to install a forge at home and bash out some LCAs when I'm up to heat.

All I need is an Anvil and a leather apron. And a hammer. And some like.....metal or something.
 
:? Errm, yeah, good luck with that.

Not for me, but you seem to be sure of what you're doing, so kudos for that.

I hope this dosen't pre-empt loads of 19 year olds to start cutting their £4'000 EP3's springs and such.

rodanmk2 said:
For indication of how you can win at what seem impossible tasks, I recommend one of my favourite reads of the last 10 years:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radioactive...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1288788505&sr=8-1
Click to expand...

Oh, my God, I need a copy of this and at £1.94 I'd be a fool not too :eek: .
 
Jermal said:
Scene points mean everything though.
Click to expand...

Why pay 20£ on a Greddy spark plug while you pay 6£ for the very same spark plug from NGK, same factory, same machine, same people putting it into boxes...

Same reason why I don't pay 500€ on a stupid bucket with a hole in it, even if it is made from carbon fiber!

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure this doesn't apply to all parts like exhausts and stuff. You get what you'll pay. But a box is a box.
 
Suits said:
:? Errm, yeah, good luck with that.

Not for me, but you seem to be sure of what you're doing, so kudos for that.

I hope this dosen't pre-empt loads of 19 year olds to start cutting their £4'000 EP3's springs and such.



Oh, my God, I need a copy of this and at £1.94 I'd be a fool not too :eek: .
Click to expand...

Do it Suited - it's an excellent read and hilarious. The guy is a hero of mine.
 
Earthslug said:
But a box is a box.
Click to expand...

Are you suggesting that no R&D goes into designing airboxs to maximise airflow? In which case, why are exhausts different? Surely they're just bit's of metal pipe that take exhausts gasses to the back of the car?

That's quite a naive approach in all honesty, especially when you compare the different designs of airbox available for the EP3. J's, Gruppe M, AEM have all come up with different designs and solutions to try and improve airflow. So I would argue and say that in this instance a box is most certainly not just a box.

What you need to remember is that you're tampering with a very important aspect of your engines ability to produce combustion. Get it wrong and it could be a very expensive mistake to make. Hopefully you won't.
 
Jermal said:
Are you suggesting that no R&D goes into designing airboxs to maximise airflow? In which case, why are exhausts different? Surely they're just bit's of metal pipe that take exhausts gasses to the back of the car?

That's quite a naive approach in all honesty, especially when you compare the different designs of airbox available for the EP3. J's, Gruppe M, AEM have all come up with different designs and solutions to try and improve airflow. So I would argue and say that in this instance a box is most certainly not just a box.
Click to expand...


Sure there is R&D in those products, but I do promise you, do you really believe those companies do 1000 dynoruns to get it right, no way!!... At most they made 3 versions of their product, tried them all and picked up the coolest looking/sounding and mass produced them.

Best example remains the Greddy Spark plugs. People actually buy those, putting their money in Greddy's pockets, who will spend it on R&D for ripping of people even more, not a single penny goes to actual spark plug development... The R&D is done by NGK, why the hell would I want to pay Greddy for using NGK plugs?
Same goes for 100's of other products. I'm sure you all know this.

How much R&D is there in a AEM cold air intake? A pipe with a cone on it, my dead cat could have come up with that piece of complex engineering.
ARC airbox? A square metal box... airflow... ?

How much R&D in Spoon's throttle body? OEM model bored to 70mm to increase airflow by 16% ... Did they ask Einstein and Stephen Hawking to calculate this astronomical difficult mathematical mystery??

Second, how many race cars, I mean the real deal like FIA GT3, not the fast and furious plastic cars, drive those JDM items? zero to almost none! Most run custom made intakes, custom exhausts, custom ported, custom gearbox... What would be their reason? And those teams are basically... the guy in the shed with loads of money...

I'm far from saying or proving you're wrong because I realise some items shouldn't be messed with (low budget cams, cheap valve springs, valves ect., unequal length headers, cheap tires, cutting lowering springs like those chop shop boys ...)
But I'm sorry to say, air induction is not on my "don't do that" list as I doubt much brain is required to make a box.

A great movie to watch: the worlds fastest indian
If you haven't seen it yet, please do, it won't be a waste of time :)
trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bu9dGRQvJY
 
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Earthslug said:
Second, how many race cars, I mean the real deal like FIA GT3, not the fast and furious plastic cars, drive those JDM items? zero to almost none! Most run custom made intakes, custom exhausts, custom ported, custom gearbox... What would be their reason? And those teams are basically... the guy in the shed with loads of money...
Click to expand...

The reason they don't use the mass produced induction kits, is because they're only after top end power as they rag their cars constantly, not every day drive ability.
 
I'm not looking for a fight here Jermal, your advice is well received and will be held in consideration in making my custom R-spec prototype induction kit.

Again, not to prove you wrong in any way, just to show you what we all know already... overpriced tuning parts...

So to all anti UK/EU-shed-DM disbelievers:


What's that in the red square?

This is a 500€ induction kit, when I pay 500€, I want a perfect product. I'm not saying this is crap, far from it, but my R&D done from in my sofa, while having a beer and watching tv at the same time, tells me this imperfection doesn't benefit airflow at all... Still this is one of the best kits around. So using some sandpaper and a bit of time, you could smoothen that imperfection and improve airflow by maybe 0.05% at most (pure guessings)

Now please correct me if that was not a swell or curving but rather an optical illusion, I have never seen such kit in real life so I might wrongfully misjudge this box.


But there is no doubt in this:
Why didn't the engineers use a smooth ducting to feed the airbox?


Looks like the "man in the shed solution" to me and not a multi million F1-team application.

Using a smooth airfeed, (silicone hose, plastic hardpipe, aluminium pipe,...) airflow could be improved by let's say... 2 to 5% ?
I'd say, the engineer doing this R&D was either drunk or didn't give a crap about max performance but rather his wallet by ripping of our brainwashed heads...

Sorry if this post seems somewhat harsh...


Now to settle any disagreements, I'd die to get my hands on a genuine toda manifold :cool: I'm not against JDM/genuine parts, my current job just doesn't financially allow me to get hands on all of them :lol:
 
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