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FN2 Evo review

C

CTR_Paul

Messages
5,642
Well worth the read guys, it's pretty extensive.

Group test wise it goes up against the following:
- Focus ST
- Golf GTi
- Megane R26
- Leon FR
- Ashtray VXR

Basically the FN2 comes last, with negative comments about:
- Handling (they prefer the EP3 and DC2)
- Feedback (As above)
- Power (Lack of!)
- Weight (Excess of!)
- Gear change (not as good at the EP3)

The Megane dominates the track test posting a lap of 5seconds quicker than the FN2 (damp track). The FN2 clocks 100 on a dry tack in 17.5s, which just about keeps it in touch with most of the competition, but hell the EP3 did 16.3, which is FFST pace and only 0.3 slower than the R26!

Overall I think it's well worth a read, as it's very very extensive.

Sure Evo are Pro-Renault, but why the hell would anyone buy an FN2 over the Golf Gti? They are in the same market, similar in cost, similar in performance, but one... namely the golf will hold it's value better, be easier to drive at speed, handle better and have far superior feedback.

Honda are going backwards in the European market. Looking at the cars they've released here I'd order them like so:

1st: Teg
2nd: Pre-f/l EP3 (because It's harder and thats what I feel a Type-R should be!)
3rd: Facelift EP3 (as above, they softened it up too much IMO!)
4th: Accord Type R (dropping out of Vtec on gear changes isn't good!)
Distant 5th: FN2, a backwards step in all the critical areas from what I've read.

:roll:

Liking that R26 Frog Chariot !! Va Va Voom.... I can live with the arse too... :lol:

Worry not though, there is a proper R in this edition of Evo, turn to page 54 and you'll find the Scooby WRX STI Spec C Type RA-R.... now that's a fooking car! 8)
 
I still haven't got my copy yet :x

EVO do love Renault far too much.....brown envelopes changing hands I feel.
 
Might have to go and purchase this, so glad I bought a DC5 over the FN2 shopping trolley. :lol:
 
Well, have to disagree with all those points. Driving back to back with my own EP. Both Nick and I (long term, EP owners and Nick a current DC2 owner). found the gear shift, steering feel and stability much better than the EP. (I am not going to compare it with the DC2 as that is not really fair :)).

I rarely agree with the Evo boys tbh, and I know some folks here think I am biased. However having driven both the Focus ST and VXR I find the FN's chassis every bit as comunicative than the Focus and much better feedback than the VXR. The Chassis is waaaay better than the VXR's and as for the interior no contest. Ok in a traffic light grand prix the VXR may have the initial edge, but the gap will be less than you think. The new CTRis much more akin to the Golfs, but I found the brakes better and the car had the edge on performance.

I think the one car that will be the one to watch will be the new Clio Cup when it arrives. I just would not want to have to deal with the build quality fit and finish. Still I am sure it will be great value when it arrives.

Still thats just my thoughts and I could write till I am blue in the fingers, some folks will have their preconceptions and some of these reviews will only reinforce them.

At the end of the day my own conclusions boiled down to the fact that compared to the EP the FN had all the plus points, fixed a few niggles and is easier to live with. Without any of the drawbacks (except the love it or hate it backside :)).

Still what do I know :D.
 
Read AUTOCAR magazines review of it too. They rate it as 3.5 stars out of 5 overall. Im sorry but Ive got to agree with the majority here in saying Im bitterly dissapointed with the new CTR. They've spent way too much time listening to the marketing men and not enough time listening to the enthusiast. As soon as it was announced it would be using torsion beam rear set up rather than independant so to allow more boot space I knew things were bleak! Major step backwards. When they announced it was heavier than the old one, yet used the same engine it just got worse.

Honda should have made more of the Type S badge as Ford have done with the ST and RS logos, and given the public the Type S as a swift comfortable car. Saving the Type R moinker for the serious hardcore version, and say sod those who want the big badge and lux too. You want leather and comfortable ride? Here's the Type S. You want the trackday ready weapon? Type R. No compromise. :x
 
spoon said:
Read CAR magazines review of it too. They rate it as 3.5 stars out of 5 overall. Im sorry but Ive got to agree with the majority here in saying Im bitterly dissapointed with the new CTR. They've spent way too much time listening to the marketing men and not enough time listening to the enthusiast. As soon as it was announced it would be using torsion beam rear set up rather than independant so to allow more boot space I knew things were bleak! Major step backwards. When they announced it was heavier than the old one, yet used the same engine it just got worse.

Honda should have made more of the Type S badge as Ford have done with the ST and RS logos, and given the public the Type S as a swift comfortable car. Saving the Type R moinker for the serious hardcore version, and say sod those who want the big badge and lux too. You want leather and comfortable ride? Here's the Type S. You want the trackday ready weapon? Type R. No compromise. :x
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CAR magazine voted it best hot hatch.

Never really sure if to trust EVO reviews, they only gave the FocusRS 3 stars. The negative points they have made about the FN2, on most other reviews have been postive.
 
G said:
Well, have to disagree with all those points. Driving back to back with my own EP. Both Nick and I (long term, EP owners and Nick a current DC2 owner). found the gear shift, steering feel and stability much better than the EP. (I am not going to compare it with the DC2 as that is not really fair :)).
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Playing Devils Advocate for a moment... you're presumably comparing your EP which is not brand new (I presume) vs a brand spanking new car? Isn't it a given that the gear shift & steering feel is smoother? Or am I oversimplifying it?

I can't help but think that in some cases peoples opinions are being influenced by the whole effect of driving a brand new car.

I know what you are saying. However I have driven an 06 edition as well. Also though in some areas my car is no doubt a tad 'looser' it has also been tweeked enough so that it is pretty raw. You could argue perhaps it is more of an 'R' as to what folks may expect of one (LSD notwithstanding). It has a new 18k engine. New stiffer engine mounts, clutch and lighter flywheel (added 3 weeks ago by the most excellent Paul at TDI). It has new Parada Spec2 tyres on. Fast road set up. Also running a fair bit more power. Gripy lightweight bucket seats etc etc. So it is undoubtedly; on paper quicker , with a better P-W ratio. I have also had it since new and clocked up 84k miles in it. So I am well aware of it's idiosyncracies (sp). The fact that I was able to get in a new unfamiliar car and go just as quick is what impressed me. In a stock car that is supposedly heavier with no more power. Againsed a standard car, in the reall world don't get me wrong head to head streight line acceleration there would be not a lot in it. I would say it would be down to the driver. However unless I am so off the mark, I would swear going round any combination of twisties the new car is much better, just becouse it has better feedback and wider power band to pull you out the corners. And as I have said before, more stable under heavy braking. I did not test it on motorways but I am sure it will also be more forgiving there as well With more punch powerdown, smoother and just generaly easier to live with. Ok I know you could argue that is not what the essence of the 'R' ethos is about, motorway manners. But we live in the real world and if I can have my cake and still drive it to work then so much the better :D

I know I am starting to sound like a broken record, and I have no problems with folks debating the pros and conns. I just object to people reading mag reviews/tests (that allways conflict anyway, and often have other agendas, and I do have some experience here for my sins). Take paper figures and make thier mind up based on those as to whether a car is any good.

If you drive it and find it wanting. Then fair enough. It will not tick everyones boxes of that I am sure. But you must surely have to at least drive the car yourself, and trust the only person who knows what you want in a car.

Would I buy one myself If I could. Hell yeah. No doubt. I just have to wait 12 months untill the wife has paid her Scooby STI off :D.
 
G said:
What did you think when you drove it Spoon?
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Obviously I havent actually driven one yet, so I may yet still be pleasantly surprised. The point Im making is that the engineers seem to have taken a step backwards with the design, and that the whole ethos of the type R seems to be being watered down to increase market appeal. Ford have managed to introduce a second performance badge into their line up with the ST models that have similar straight line grunt to the more hardcore RS products, yet pamper to the driver that enjoys a bit of lux to. Meaning that when they do launch an RS, it can feature things such as a trick quaife diff that mr average would moan about in the regular car. Honda had the opportunity to do the same with the Type S, but chose instead to simply bolt a sporty kit and wheels onto the basic standard car.

Imagine if the new Type R had actually been launched as the Type S, and then the R version appearing later with much firmer suspension, additional bracing/cage, beefier brakes, trackday tyres, and more power which lets face it it should have had from day one seeing as the DC5 uses the same lump and produces around 220bhp. Strip it of the non-essentials and put it onsale. Renault are doing similar things these days with their new harder Cup/Trophy badge and adding a bit more comfort to the basic Sport model, so it can be done. It would be the kind of Type R I want to drive.
 
spoon said:
Honda should have made more of the Type S badge as Ford have done with the ST and RS logos, and given the public the Type S as a swift comfortable car. Saving the Type R moinker for the serious hardcore version, and say sod those who want the big badge and lux too. You want leather and comfortable ride? Here's the Type S. You want the trackday ready weapon? Type R. No compromise. :x
Click to expand...

This is it. I mean why bring out a "Sport" when its not sporty? I remember having a lengthy chat with a HUK Techy about this 3 years ago. Honda has done nothing for the Type-S, its just a badge with an "ok" engine. What they ought to do is pitch the Type-S against the likes of GTIs, STs, VXRs etc and leave the Type-R purely for the enthusiasts and take on the R32, S3, VXR, RS etc etc.

The Type-R should never be compromised for space/luxuries and comfort, at least not to the degree the FN2 has. This was the mistake the Golf GTI made, and yet Honda have not learned from that. :cry:

When the DC2 came out in Japan, there was hardly anything that could touch it in its price range. Same with the NSX-R. This was because these cars were designed with a clear mission. I feel that Honda has lost that.

I've been a Honda fan for as long as long as I can remember (CRX days :oops:) but its hard not to feel disappointed with what they've done here. Must admit I haven't driven the car and shouldn't form an opinion based on what I read. But if its not competitive on the track, then to me Honda has messed up somewhere. :cry: :x

I think its time to do what the WRX chaps did when the bug-eyed Impreza came out... let them know what we think. 8)
 
spoon said:
G said:
What did you think when you drove it Spoon?
Click to expand...

Obviously I havent actually driven one yet, so I may yet still be pleasantly surprised. The point Im making is that the engineers seem to have taken a step backwards with the design, and that the whole ethos of the type R seems to be being watered down to increase market appeal. Ford have managed to introduce a second performance badge into their line up with the ST models that have similar straight line grunt to the more hardcore RS products, yet pamper to the driver that enjoys a bit of lux to. Meaning that when they do launch an RS, it can feature things such as a trick quaife diff that mr average would moan about in the regular car. Honda had the opportunity to do the same with the Type S, but chose instead to simply bolt a sporty kit and wheels onto the basic standard car.

Imagine if the new Type R had actually been launched as the Type S, and then the R version appearing later with much firmer suspension, additional bracing/cage, beefier brakes, trackday tyres, and more power which lets face it it should have had from day one seeing as the DC5 uses the same lump and produces around 220bhp. Strip it of the non-essentials and put it onsale. Renault are doing similar things these days with their new harder Cup/Trophy badge and adding a bit more comfort to the basic Sport model, so it can be done. It would be the kind of Type R I want to drive.
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Completely agree.

Marketing men are not doing their job (looking too closely at the competition) and being over-ruled by the accountants, and the engineers need to grow some balls and stand up for themselves.

It's a watered down lets keep everyone happy compromise.
 
I remember die hard enthusiasts saying the same thing about the EP3. How it was watered down (all the Prelude drivers still say it on Honda Revs). That is is not in the spirit of what type R is all about. The EP of course had it's defenders. People who stuck up for it after driving and falling in love with it. Saying how the market and needs of drivers have moved on. That as far as the current market goes, it is a raw and focused drive. That you had to drive it and live with it to understand it.

I find it interesting that many of these people seem to have short memories (on lots of forums I go on :)). And are now taking the opposite view in regards to the FN.

I looked carefully at the new car, and looked at (comparing it to the EP and it's rivals, not the DC2 and EK9, which are cars spawned from a different era really). And try and see, appart from the weight (and on the road you do not notice it, really. What makes it more compromised than the EP? And it's rivals.

Air Con, well most folks have that on the EP (though I did not :)). Torsion bar at the back, that some have said was to make more room, some to save cost (partly true) and some to save weight. Yet despite folks saying it is a step back, most folks agree that the strong points of cars like the 205 GTi and Clio are the chassis dynamics, and no one bemones them for having a torsion bar. All I know is the FN chassis seems to work.

The car has more room, but looks no bigger than mine. That I can see.

OK The engine is a we bit smoother again, so may feel less raw. But when you look at is it is no different to when pople add the Basic K-Pro. Lowering Vtec Point and widening the power band. Oh and the push button start, a small thing, but only what we were doing to ours. Hardly examples of them ignoring what the enthusiasts were doing. Seats more like those in a DC2. A stiffer chassis that is still firm (at least as firm as the EP). Even the airbox is compact and lighter and looks more like a Mugen item. It even sounds like a mildly tuned EP. Even the brakes seem to have more feel (and the little logo that folks often moan that the UKDM EP did not have. These are just a few points of course.

OK, even I would admit to wanting to see an 'Option Deleate' feature, like they sometimes have in Japan. And Nick mentioned that to the Honda bods.

Could they have gone further, well technicaly of course, I know what you guys mean to an extent. You all would have liked it to have double wishbone on the back. No comforts except perhaps a stereo, and LSD and 200kg lighter.

Would it have been a better car, on a track I have no doubt you may save a second or two. But on the road in the reall world, all you would notice is it would be harder to live with. Fine if all you do is 15 minute trips, or have a second car...but more folks I am certain want something fun, and yet they can live with everyday.


Another way to look at it is if the EP was perfect we would not have to tweek it and add all our beloved widgets :). Any shortcomings with the FN I am sure we can (and will) do the same thing :D. And don't say that the 'engineers should have got it right in the first place'. Where would be the fun in that...
 
I see your point, but don't forget despite being what some call "watered down", the EP3 was still a competent car on the track, "a drivers car" and was setting the standard for Hot-hatches in its time.

But from what we all read, this is no longer the case with the FN2. Not only does it not perform as well as its competitors on the track, Honda have made performance sacrifices which for a type-r really isn't acceptable. Plus it was designed for non-enthusiasts. :?

I could live with the FN2's looks bar some parts of the rear but its hard to live with the fact it's no faster than its predecessors. <- note plural :lol:

In terms of looks, I think the EP3 looks better than the FN2, but the FN2 looks more modern.

So, whos up for a petition for Honda to revise the FN2? 225bhp and LSD ought to do it! :p
 
EVO rated the bog standard diesel over the petrol so what the f*** do they know about cars.
 
Tony N said:
EVO rated the bog standard diesel over the petrol so what the f*** do they know about cars.
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Perhaps the diesel is better at being a diesel run about than the Type-R is at being a road racer?
 
G said:
Could they have gone further, well technicaly of course, I know what you guys mean to an extent. You all would have liked it to have double wishbone on the back. No comforts except perhaps a stereo, and LSD and 200kg lighter.

Would it have been a better car, on a track I have no doubt you may save a second or two. But on the road in the reall world, all you would notice is it would be harder to live with. Fine if all you do is 15 minute trips, or have a second car...but more folks I am certain want something fun, and yet they can live with everyday.
Click to expand...

But this is exactly the point I was making when I said Honda should have made more of the Type S. They should have given it the same engine/box/looks etc as the Type R, but with softer settings and more creature comforts. Let the Type S go head to head with the Focus ST/Golf Gti/Leon R etc. If you are the sort of customer that wants a fast car that can be used comfortably every day then the Type S should be the car to fit that bill.

What Honda should not have done was water down the Type R to fill this role. Keep that one as the lightweight stripped out niche model for the diehard enthusiasts out there. That is after all what has happened with the outgoing Type R, where the JDM one got Recaros, 212bhp, tougher springs and a LSD. Why? Because the Japs wouldnt have excepted it as a Type R otherwise. Same as they wont acknowledge the Accord Type R as anything other than a "Euro R" for being too cossetting. Rumour has it they are to get a stripped out caged up Homologation version of the FN2 too. If they can have the option of that why cant we? Thats the car that should be onsale here badged Type R.

After all, if the Type S and Type R were effectively the same cars to look at and barring a few tweaks were mechanically identical under the skin, the only major difference being one is set up harder and stripped to be lighter, then the only people who would moan are those who simply buy cars for the badge they sport anyway, i.e. non enthusiasts looking to impress by having the badge with the kudos attached.
 
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