Fast road setup for EP3 - What is really needed?

[colemauro]

Hey guys,

I know there are ton of threads about this, but due to my own expectations i would to have a clear idea on what to.
My EP3 is need of work, so step by step i am swapping what is needed and for better parts if possible.

What is my purpose?
A fast road EP3, something like Type R+.
Mainly hillclimbs and a coupe track day's a year.

What i currently have?
KW V2 coils
Hardrace rear camber kit

Plans for immediate future
- My KW V2 will need a big service. The springs are going to be replaced (due to oxidation and one of the springs being broken)
The local suspension shop, recommended me going on step up in terms of the stiffness. With that the car will roll less and i can run my coils a little bit softer.
- Replace all bushings with polybusch kit (maybe Powerflex)
- Replace both ARPs
- Add front camber adjustability
- Fast road geo

So here are my questions:
1. In terms of ARB what is the most recommended setup for front rear? I am not sure on what is the best combo front and rear.
2. What you guys think about my suspension guy recommending me to have stiffer springs? Having into consideration that i will eventually add stiffer ARBs
3. I recon i can have the fast road geo, once my coils are new again and i have front and rear camber adjustability + the coils reviewed. Do you guys agree?

Thanks in advance

 

[Chris.]

JDM rear ARB is usually mostly recommended.

Rather than trying some settings, go with a JDM rear ARB, keep the current suspension settings and then see how you get on. Making many ARB and suspension changes blindly isn't going to help long term, you need to make fewer changes and gauge how they affect the car. Do some track days, weekends away, see how the car feels and where it's lacking. Is it too much roll, too little? Back end too loose, too much understeer etc? And make decisions based on that.

 

[colemauro]

JDM rear ARB is usually mostly recommended.

Rather than trying some settings, go with a JDM rear ARB, keep the current suspension settings and then see how you get on. Making many ARB and suspension changes blindly isn't going to help long term, you need to make fewer changes and gauge how they affect the car. Do some track days, weekends away, see how the car feels and where it's lacking. Is it too much roll, too little? Back end too loose, too much understeer etc? And make decisions based on that.

Thanks mate.

Due to rust i will need to replace a lot of components. The ARB is one of them

Also, i was sure that EP3 platform has no secrets to the tunning world, and was expecting for a recipy for a good and neutral setup.
This would include mainly spring rated and ARB diameter (24mm, 26mm, ...) front/rear.

The problem i have with know is that my KWs really need a fresh overall because they have lot's of rust and oxidation and one of the springs is broken, so i need to decide now on what to do regarding the springs.
- replace the current spring for another spring (my suspension guy uses Eibach and not KW) but equal to the current one's (in terms of spring rate and so on), or
- follow he's advice and go one step up in terms of spring stiffness.

 

[Chris.]

If you want what are widely considered the best springs, get Swift.

Stiffer springs doesn't necessarily mean better handling/feedback, you need some roll in the car. Install a JDM rear ARB, replace the springs and go with a neutral setup and then see how you get on. Every driver is different, tyres behave differently, different tracks demand on the car in different ways. There is no one size solution to cater for everyone IMO.

Personally - neutral setup on the suspension, decent springs, JDM rear anti roll bar, decent tyres, brakes, LSD and a seat which will hold you in such as a Recaro Pole Position, and go from there.

 

[colemauro]

If you want what are widely considered the best springs, get Swift.

Stiffer springs doesn't necessarily mean better handling/feedback, you need some roll in the car. Install a JDM rear ARB, replace the springs and go with a neutral setup and then see how you get on. Every driver is different, tyres behave differently, different tracks demand on the car in different ways. There is no one size solution to cater for everyone IMO.

Personally - neutral setup on the suspension, decent springs, JDM rear anti roll bar, decent tyres, brakes, LSD and a seat which will hold you in such as a Recaro Pole Position, and go from there.

On my case the focus is mainly fast road use, a Type R+ of sorts.
Just curious about this.
I imaggine having a stiffer rear ARB is to help the car rotate better, and you didn't recommend any front ARB. Any reason for that? i will need to replace front ARB anyway due to oxidation/rust.

 

[Chris.]

A stiffer rear ARB will make the car rotate faster. Too stiff and it will make it oversteer too much, which is why I suggested just doing the JDM (or equivalent) rear ARB, and leaving springs neutral.

The vast majority of cars will understeer for safety out of the factory. For tracks and fast road, you want it to rotate faster, but not so much you'll be sideways everywhere.

 

[colemauro]

A stiffer rear ARB will make the car rotate faster. Too stiff and it will make it oversteer too much, which is why I suggested just doing the JDM (or equivalent) rear ARB, and leaving springs neutral.

The vast majority of cars will understeer for safety out of the factory. For tracks and fast road, you want it to rotate faster, but not so much you'll be sideways everywhere.

Hi,
Yes, i am aware that all OEM cars come from factory with a tendency for understeer, since it is safer for everybody.

From what you suggested
1. Rear ARB 24 mm
Is the JDM the go to option, or any other 24mm (whiteline, ...) is also OK?
I prefer to install something black, and the JDM's are red to my understanding.

2. Front ARB same as stock (22mm)?
Since i need to replace front ARB, you recommend keeping the same as OEM (22mm).

Thanks in advance

 

[Suits]

Hey man,

Just my couple of pence.

Chris speaks thruth. Generally drivers tend to go for the JDM ARB's - they're 2MM wider all round from what I can remember, thus stiffer.

I've had, OEM - JDM - OEM and bought another EP3 recently that is OEM again.

Unless you're driving on the limit an awful lot or circuit driving then I'll be imprressed if you can tell the difference.

There's so many variables, tyres, dampers, springs, geo, etc....

One important thing to consider is that the front JDM anti roll bar (and most other aftermarket versions) are a differnet shape to the UKDM & EUR versions that allow for a larger exhaust tunnel and if you're getting exhaust manifold work done is essentail really. So that's awlays worth doing if you think you'll expore the engine that way.

Whitelines are fine. All my JDM ARB's have been black but you can prepare and spray them whatever colour you like.

Let us know how you get on.