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K20a genuine tested dyno figures

R

reliability counts

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Hi all we have had many inquiries about horse power increase.
so id like to explain.

The stock k20a uk spec on a correct and caliburated dyno

Standard power unit mapped up does at the best 203hp@flywheel up around 9000rpm with 160ft/torque

Standard power unit with roller throttle bodies with different variant exhaust lengths diametre all tried etc, mapped up does 241hp @flywheel and 172ft/torque, 247max and you lose some mid range torque.

We then tried various head masking, valves, and cam variants available and even had our own cams made by a non uk specialised cam company with our profiles, that made between 8 to 14hp.

We found the only way to make above 260hp and onto 300hp is bigger cc with gains also from using a dry sump set up.

This experience has come from extremely long dyno work and its hopefully some genuine honest ( non bulls**t information and expectation for members of the forum to look at when they are contemplating building an engine

Budget for an engine that will produce well over 270hp like this is around £8k plus ( gives you something to save up for):lol:

NOTE, Just to add most engine rebuilds where you can have a good spec of forged rods a range of forged pistons and a complete freshen up would be around £2800 to 3k

many thanks Mike
 
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dyno figures

All the related information is caliburated on a Froud console dynometre.

Its that accurate it can be depressing. :lol: Especially when a customer comes along with his engine that he thinks is going to give 5 million horsepower :p

Thanks for looking at this thread
 
reliability counts said:
All the related information is caliburated on a Froud console dynometre.

Its that accurate it can be depressing. :lol: Especially when a customer comes along with his engine that he thinks is going to give 5 million horsepower :p

Thanks for looking at this thread
Click to expand...

wow!
where do you get access to this? they cost a fortune based on my latest research ...
The Robot driver cracks me up though...
http://www.froudehofmann.com/product_57.htm
 
Some interesting comments.....

However... you can get 290 > 300bhp NA out of 2000cc from the Honda K series......

That's all I can say.....

Mike
 
^ What he said.

If there is one thing I have learnt in 20 years of playing around with cars, as soon as someone comes along saying such and such cannot be done, along comes some bright spark who goes and does it :D.
 
CTR_Paul said:
Indeed... BTCC cars are testament to that.
Click to expand...

But how much work have they had done on the bottom end to get it to 300BHP. I'm sure it would cost a lot more then what us normal folk would shed out.
 
Yup, but I was just pointing out it was possible to do ! I'm not sure what they are allowed to with the engines in BTCC ?
 
No, but it won't achieve them anything anyway. They just run wild profile cams that's it.
 
As Chris says, VTEC makes the engine run nicely at the bottom end and make good power at the top end - it doesn't add anything on a race car.

The fact is that the BTCC cars make 300ish from a 2.0 litre K20a and AFAIK they are rev limited. Which tells you something about the following statement...

reliability counts said:
We found the only way to make above 260hp and onto 300hp is bigger cc
Click to expand...
 
jules86 said:
£8k :eek: You can supercharge for 3.5k and get around 300bhp!
Click to expand...

Yeah but this is relaible NA power...not bolt on boost boy power.:lol:

Think about it:
Stroker kit £3k ish maybe
Head work and parts £1.5K
Camshafts and springs £1K
Engine block work and labour apx 40-50 hours apx £2K

These are all conservative prices as well.

This is why making power NA is so expensive. its so much easier to just bolt on a charger.
 
Yeah but been there done that, NA all the way for me from now on :D. Would rather have teh reliability and throttle response of a built N/A motor, especially with the miles I do. Oh and instead of doing the above I'd rather build a K24/20. Cost less too, and easy 300+ horse. You can build to rev as well if you like.
 
Just to clear up the BTCC K series engine...

They run on high cam only, no vtec... All BTTC car run the same throttle body, which is quite a bit smaller than the OEM unit, they also run the same ECU's...

My understanding, is that Neil Brown's Engineering (supplier of Team Dynamics etc) engines run 'modified' mugen parts, these produce 280 > 290 bhp... I have heard of another UK based BTTC engine builder, that's got higher than this out of thier BTTC Spec 2.0L K series....


Yes, running a K24/20 engine is a cheaper option for NA power, yes they can run 300+... however, they suffer form long term reliablity issues (the same can be said of hybrid builds i.e. strockers etc)... if you want reliable NA power.. then a fully built 2.0L is the way forwards, but these come in at a cost... these are more suitable for track also..

Hopefully, it wont be long now till my NA setup is complete in my DC5...

Mike
 
Any tuned engine will run into reliability issues, comparativly speaking due to the higher stress involved. As far as the K24/20 hybrid goes it depends on how you build it, you do not need to rev as hard for example where as even a fully built 2ltr, designed to rev has to be worked that much harder than running higher capacity. I would still take (if given the choice) a fully built 24/20 over a fully built 20. More power, working less hard. At the end of the day it is all down to the components used, the knowledge putting it together and how it is driven.

I myself am just going for the 2ltr n/a approach, but that is as much due to cost factors, and wanting to see how far I can go with it and still maintain it as a DD. Remembering I do more miles than most on here I bet, so reliability is important. I do remember all to well that horrible feeling of having your engine turn inside out on a cold rainy evening :D

Even if you stay stock, there are no guarantees...
 
on this subject

A few good comments here. More accessable power will obviously come from supercharging and turbocharging and this type of power and set up is straight forward using correct components and mapping for reliability. But will still cost plenty money. We know one guy who paid £4500 to have his engine fitted with a supercharger he supplied, mapped, and it still wasnt right, by one of the so called top engine tuners.

However if you are building a NA motor and are looking to gain big power figures, power and torque figures can only be gained with capacity. Works engines are different kettle of fish, hence the cost.

On a recent engine we dynoed using a brand name dry sump system we actually lost power from the engine, as much as 8hp. This lead us to an all new design which is now available, but again it costs, because of low volume and quality fittings and testing

The main problems are that there is alot of nasty components out there that effects reliablity ie. faulty rods, nasty pistons, bad design cams.That look good but dont deliver.
I can show you sets of eagle rods that have stretched severly bad, Then in other cases upto certain hp and revs they have been ok. But just ok.

We have some latest designed rods that are 40% lighter and stronger than anything available, birrillium bushed etc and are toca spec, but again there £1100, same with Cams, we have a german comany that have made us some proper billet steel cams, the list goes on , but it all costs money for only a limited market.

Unfortunatley being honest, you pay for what you get.

We have built many engines for many budgets and always advise customers on how good a product is. However we have found that if you are building an engine project, if you want it to be professionally built with reliability and the right kit, put the project back a while, save some money and get the job done correctly.

Good luck to all :D
 
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