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Lowering springs ruining the car?

Argument*

Having owned one or two Type R's myself, each and every one of them having FRSU with either coilovers or springs, I can attest to the difference being in a positive direction.

Many many people on here and other forums have benefited from this set up.

If you haven't refreshed the dampers when carrying out the modifications, you might as well drive with no tyres on.
 
What we are saying is that you started a thread to complain about aftermarket parts that you have fitted to your car, fair enough. You then go on to say that these parts should under no circumstances be fitted to this car, and that the experience and knowledge of every other person that contributed to the thread is wrong and unhelpful. You did not do it in a polite way.

This forum has a wealth of experience from a very diverse group of enthusiasts; everybody here has their own preferences, background and driving style. These people will gladly help you with any problems you have.

BUT, you will not benefit from this if you continue to act as you have in this thread. There have been many possible solutions put forward and experiences shared, you dismissed all of them off hand. You have consistently rebuked every person who has commented. You have ridden in on your high horse claiming that 85% of the people on this forum have ruined their cars. You have refused to accept a single opinion.

How do you expect people to react to that attitude?
 
Stoo. said:
If you haven't refreshed the dampers when carrying out the modifications, you might as well drive with no tyres on.
Click to expand...
This really.
A shock designed for the standard height, standard spring rate, that's now probably half worn out. Isn't exactly ideal for fitting a shorter and stiffer spring.
That's not rocket science!
 
jimbothemagnificent said:
What we are saying is that you started a thread to complain about aftermarket parts that you have fitted to your car, fair enough. You then go on to say that these parts should under no circumstances be fitted to this car, and that the experience and knowledge of every other person that contributed to the thread is wrong and unhelpful. You did not do it in a polite way.

This forum has a wealth of experience from a very diverse group of enthusiasts; everybody here has their own preferences, background and driving style. These people will gladly help you with any problems you have.

BUT, you will not benefit from this if you continue to act as you have in this thread. There have been many possible solutions put forward and experiences shared, you dismissed all of them off hand. You have consistently rebuked every person who has commented. You have ridden in on your high horse claiming that 85% of the people on this forum have ruined their cars. You have refused to accept a single opinion.

How do you expect people to react to that attitude?
Click to expand...

There is only one right answer, I listened to opinion when I lowered the car, it was a mistake. They are after all only opinions. I brought evidence to support my side, you've brought none.

People keep talking about dampers and cling onto it as the answer, I have told you it is not, but still you cling to it. I'm not the only one who won't listen to others.

I can't accept anyone's opinion on a lowered car being better because it just isn't, I've driven one and it was clclearly worse, proved immediately when fitting standard springs again.

I am sorry you think I'm rude, I get straight to the point with no fussing around, that's just the way I am.
 
Having read the entire thread 3 main things jump out at me.

1, you say youre a mechanical engineer, that dont mean shiz, I am also a mechanical engineer with a degree in mechanical and manufacturing. Doent mean im an expert at suspension. Mechanical enginering is a very vast topic. (As a side note, I made the very first GAZ shock absorber having worked for the company GAZ originally sub contracted to. I also designed (asphetically only) the first pro-tech shocks now used by 75% of cars on the oval, working very closely with Rod Avon, the founder of Avo shocks, who I now count as a good friend having stayed with him and his family in jersey on several occassions, so maybe I do know a bit about shocks)

2, you say you have brought evidence to the table, and that people keep clinging to the shocks being wrong even though you have said thats not the case. But you havnt tried changing the shocks with the lower springs. So you too have just dismissed that being the problem with theory alone.

3, this being my favorite, summing up your argument youre saying no car can be improved from factory, because it was designed by engineers and their like clever and that. Thats some truly crazy talk.
 
anglia105 & a type R said:
Having read the entire thread 3 main things jump out at me.

1, you say youre a mechanical engineer, that dont mean shiz, I am also a mechanical engineer with a degree in mechanical and manufacturing. Doent mean im an expert at suspension. Mechanical enginering is a very vast topic. (As a side note, I made the very first GAZ shock absorber having worked for the company GAZ originally sub contracted to. I also designed (asphetically only) the first pro-tech shocks now used by 75% of cars on the oval, working very closely with Rod Avon, the founder of Avo shocks, who I now count as a good friend having stayed with him and his family in jersey on several occassions, so maybe I do know a bit about shocks)

2, you say you have brought evidence to the table, and that people keep clinging to the shocks being wrong even though you have said thats not the case. But you havnt tried changing the shocks with the lower springs. So you too have just dismissed that being the problem with theory alone.

3, this being my favorite, summing up your argument youre saying no car can be improved from factory, because it was designed by engineers and their like clever and that. Thats some truly crazy talk.
Click to expand...

1. Never said I was an expert but being an engineer does afford you the ability to understand how mechanical equipment works beyond your average layman.

2. The outcome would be the same, as someone whos studied engineering you should know this from the evidence provided. The problem is NOT shock related, it is to do with the car being lowered past the LCA's being horizontal allowing the cornering forces to exit through the suspension and not the subframe which creates understeer. Changing the shocks might help with the crashy ride, but not the angle of the LCA's.

3. This is my favorite too, can you show me where I said no car can be improved from the factory? I have said many times it is THIS CAR AND THE DC5.
 
My DC5's were lowered
LCA's were level.
Handled better than factory.
#experience.

Those DC5's in the BTCC, and the TGM race cars. Sh1t. Don't handle. Understeer everywhere....
Oh, wait.
I'm not an engineer, but I do work for quite a big motor manufacturer in Technical Development.
 
OK, in some cases, past horizontal, and it still handled much better than stock.

It would be great if you could subjectively substantiate your claims rather than just regurgitating.

(By which I mean use dampers that aren't past their best, like your argument.)
 
Stuart89 said:
There is only one right answer.
Click to expand...

This is, I feel, the root of the problem. There is not only one right answer. There are many different solutions to suit many different requirements.

Most of your statements are opinions and not facts as you claim them to be, they are clearly not the opinion of others. Set the car up however you want, it's your car and what matters is your enjoyment of it. It is rude and unnecessary to claim that everybody else is wrong, have ruined their cars and insinuate that their knowledge and experience is worthless.

Personally, what worries me most is that you are saying that these cars are not race cars, but that you also clearly drive it to it's limits on public roads. "I feel if I press on it will throw me off the road". Drive a bit slower perhaps? If you want to experience the ultimate performance of these cars, then please do it on a track.
 
The civic type r is lower than the standard civic on the same chassis. By Stuart's theory, the standard civic will handle better no?
End of the day, the standard suspension isn't built for pure performance. It's a compromise of comfort, height (so idiots can hit speed humps at speed) and half decent handling.
 
Stoo. said:
OK, in some cases, past horizontal, and it still handled much better than stock.

It would be great if you could subjectively substantiate your claims rather than just regurgitating.

(By which I mean use dampers that aren't past their best, like your argument.)
Click to expand...

So, you want me to buy a new set of dampers, fit lowering springs and test the car because you dont understand the point of this thread? Yeah, Ill get right on that. Maybe you should explain why dampers will affect the LCA angle?

Lewis, that is absolutely not what Im saying, you have no idea what is going on in this thread, its embarrassing.

This whole thread is actually quite embarrassing and I dont really see much point in continuing it, everything that needs to be said has been said and the evidence is also posted within it. If you read it, understand it and still want to lower your car then go ahead. There is nothing else to gain here, you people are just repeating the same stuff that was said pages ago by other people and the answers are still the same.
 
I know exactly what's going on. You complained of the car 'bouncing' when you pushed hard in cornering. Had a flounce and declared yourself being right and everyone wrong.
The main part of the suspension that prevents the car from bouncing is the shocks. I've fitted hundreds of lowering springs to all different types of cars and they all feel and drive the same afterwards. It's because the standard shocks can't cope with a higher spring rate. That's why personally I don't like just fitting lowering springs. Ideally you need springs and uprated/shortened shocks or coilovers.
As for the lower arm angle. I ran lowered for 8 months before recently fitting extended ball joints. The difference is very little. It's reduced the front roll and that's about it.
 
I completely understand the thread.

It seems it's all about your misinterpretation of the workings of a McPherson strut suspension system.
 
I have done a lot of research into getting an EP3 to corner better on UK roads due to my car coming fitted with Tein Super Streets (one of the most compliant good quality coilovers) with top mounts enabling a full fast road set up from tdi with camber adjusters. This set up is great on smmoth roads I.e tracks, however still shocking of UK roads due to not being compliant enough.

The best possible upgrade to the EP3 suspension is the Mugen Sports Suspension kit, this lowers the EP3 15mm keeping all geometry in spec, and comes with matched non-adjustable dampers for the same reason stock with non adjustable dampers, it's a perfectly matched suspension set up. It is however not the cheapest option but for good reasons, as being someone who is running a set of £1200 coilovers looking to get a more compliant set of suspension for UK roads, Honda standard suspension from them comes in at around £1200, similar price to the Mugen which is 10% stiffer in the front, 5% in the rear it is clear that Mugen looked at the standard suspension and realised that it was near perfect so only made minor adjustments to it.

If you want a well dampened kit for UK roads this is basically your only option, apart from New standard dampers, and the Eibach pro kit that would also give pretty good results but will be lower and affect the Geo like everyone above has said.
 
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