Non-lowered progressive springs?

[mike.h]

Hi all, I've been contemplating new springs recently, but if I went the common route of the Eibach Pros then I'd also need new rear camber arms, front camber bolts, etc. etc. and a full alignment.

However, does anyone make a decent set of _non_ lowered progressive springs?

Or, am I just going to have to go the common:

• Eibach pro springs (15mm drop on an EP3?)
• Hardrace rear camber arms
• Front adjustable camber bolts (who's the preferred for this now?)

And for settings (if there are no same ride-height progressive springs avail):

• 1 degree negative camber all round
• 2mm toe in at rear
• 1mm toe out at front

Thoughts? Info?

Likewise, while I'm digging around in here, is there anything other than the bumpstops I should change (car's a 55 reg) while here?

It all starts to add up pretty quickly. What starts at a £150 set of springs suddenly builds up.

 

[mike.h]

I went searching through this sub-forum, but there are a LOT of topics, search itself for springs is 20 pages of results, I made it through most of them. The intro text sticky (thanks Chris) does say a lot, but it doesn't (unless I missed something) describe a lot of the why sometimes. e.g. Why are shims needed? I understand the adjustable camber for a drop, but not shims. Would they be necessary for a 15mm drop? Is that all you'd get out of http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/perfo...owering-spring-kit-lowers-front-and-rear-30mm (I appreciate the text says 30mm, but different places also say that since the Type-R is already lowered that the drop would actually be 15mm).

Stuff like this.

I think I'd prefer if I could do this without the drop, but if I can't then do I need more than I mentioned in the intro above?

 

[Loxy]

Shims are on an FN2 as it has a torsion beam rather than IRS on the EP3 and you have an EP3 right?

There are no mainstream springs that are progressive that don't drop the car at all. Lowering the centre of gravity is seen as a performance gain, so if you're making new springs, you may as well make them so there is a drop.

Since there is a drop, the suspension arms/components are effectively in a pre-compressed state, i.e. they sit at a different angle from stock springs, meaning the camber will be wrong. You don't have to do the camber bolt and adjustable camber arms thing, but it will handle worse than before you put the springs on without you sorting the camber out, plus it will chew through tyres.

It didn't used to be such an issue spending circa £120 on springs, £30 on bolts and £120 on arms with a £200-£250 fitting and set-up labour charge when the cars were still selling for £6-7k, but I guess it is all relative. Smiles per £, it is still worth getting it all done as it really does improve the agility and stability of the car.

One word of warning though, if you have tired shock absorbers then lowering the car on new springs might show this up. They may have felt fine on old stock springs and you've not noticed the deterioration, but you may end up having to replace the dampers too if they are in a state.

 

[Krzys]

Can I ask why you want to change the springs in the first place?

 

[mike.h]

Can I ask why you want to change the springs in the first place?

Current ones are pretty badly rusted in places. The coating's obviously cracked at some point and water's done its work.

Also, I find them a bit harsh (hence asking about progressive rather than just replacing with OEM).

 

[Chris ep3]

I would be interested in standard ride height springs as I need to get over an evil speed bump to get into my work seems a waste to change my leaking damping and put old springs back in

 

[mike.h]

Thanks for all the details Loxy (and yes I have an EP3, sorry I didn't mention)!

Anyone have recommendations on brand for front bolts, or are they all much of a muchness quality-wise compared to the rear arms?

 

[TuckR]

Eibach are most commonly used and haven't seem any negative comments about them, I have them myself and I've no complaints.

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[Nidge76]

I've just purchased the eibach bolts but not fitted yet. Only heard good reviews on them.

Are you going for the hardrace camber arms? They are the ones I'm thinking of getting.

 

[jimbodeeni]

If you are sticking to standard height, have you thought about some coilovers?
But then the costs do start adding up

 

[jimbodeeni]

If you are sticking to standard height, have you thought about some coilovers?
But then the costs do start adding up

 

[mike.h]

If you are sticking to standard height, have you thought about some coilovers?
But then the costs do start adding up

If I went coilovers it's not just a little jump either. I could go cheap(er), but as others have commented a lot of those have a tendency to leak over time. That leaves me going for something similarly prices to a gearbox rebuild (LSD, new synchros and bearings).

Springs would be fine I think

 

[Lewisgame]

Standard rear springs are progressive anyway....


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[mike.h]

Standard rear springs are progressive anyway....

Which, sadly, doesn't help

Buying new front springs from Honda directly is around £200 (and not progressive). Buying a set of progressives, like the Eibach Pros, is about £150.

Thanks though, interesting to know.

 

[Lewisgame]

Why do you want the front springs to also be progressive? Is the standard spring rate too hard?


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[mike.h]

Why do you want the front springs to also be progressive? Is the standard spring rate too hard?

Maybe it's just me, but yeah. I like the overall firmness, but that first bit of travel could be a little softer to even out the ride.

I don't need it. I was mostly curious. It seemed that many of the replacement springs (including a lot of the sport springs) were progressive, but they also had a drop which I wasn't _as_ interested in. The Type R is already lowered a bit anyway, so I figured I'd ask if anyone did a progressive spring that wasn't also lowered. It seems about the closest I can get is the Eibachs which seem to be a 15mm drop. Not so bad I suppose. If it improves the handling and copes with minor bumps (cats eyes, stones, the M25 near Heathrow) in a little less jarring fashion, all the better.

 

[Lewisgame]

Nature of the beast really. It's a 'hot' hatch back so the suspension is more focused on handling over comfort.
The progressive part of a progressive spring does very little in the suspension travel. Looking at one fitted to a car with the weight of the car on it, the coils will be very close to touching. You'll only get around 10-20mm of travel at the softer rate before it goes harder.
Being honest, if you want a car that's more comfortable, I'd sell up and buy a VW Golf.


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[mike.h]

Nature of the beast really. It's a 'hot' hatch back so the suspension is more focused on handling over comfort.
The progressive part of a progressive spring does very little in the suspension travel. Looking at one fitted to a car with the weight of the car on it, the coils will be very close to touching. You'll only get around 10-20mm of travel at the softer rate before it goes harder.

Sure, and that 10mm, if that's all it is, would be perfect.

Being honest, if you want a car that's more comfortable, I'd sell up and buy a VW Golf.

Definitely not after a barge, just the initial tiny flex at the start of travel.

I could put up with what I have without issue, just figured I'd raise it as a question, thanks for your additional info

 

[mike.h]

A thought about toe. I note that people have referred to it in millimetres, but that would be dependent on the distance from the pivot point. Why is toe referred to in mm here? Wouldn't degrees make more sense? Is the toe adjustment at the edge of the brake disc, the tread of the tire, the length of the equipment used for adjustment?

 

[Loxy]

Difference between the distance between of the front of the wheel rims and rear of the rims IIRC. As long as your wheels aren't buckled, it's always consistent.