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Oil system issue
- Thread starter Chris.
- Start date
ian
Red Snapper
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Neily03 said:Can someone copy and paste, can't be assed to register...
As posted: "Oil starvation problems in k20a2's the real story....
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while doing an oilpump for a member, i noticed something critical, that would explain why some k20a2 motors starved oil and cavitated and others didn't at high rev....
this was never brought up after i did a search but is very crutial. i'll have the pics hopefully tonight "forgot the usb cable" but let's just say ti's a REAL eye opener!
put the thread in so i won't forget when i get home.... in the meantime please stay patient, it's well worth the wait.... aka what honda did that didn't want you to see
ahhaahahahahahah
-H"
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There you go Neil. :wink:
The bit that tuned CTR owners (Those with higher Revlimit's, IMO 8600 is about safe, so it only really aplies to those above that (9k+), i.e. Friendy, TP, Me (next week), Kieser etc etc) need read is as follows:
Note that there is no clarification on which pumps are used in which cars, there appears to be at least 4 varients thus far.
HotWheelz said:editing them, just got back in the door, like 10 minutes ago, i was tunning a B20vtec with the innovative lm3.. wow almost pulled harder than my k24! hehe.. anyways give me 20.. i'm editing them for ease of understanding...
*UPDATE*
ok before you view the pictures, i'll explain something... how the oil pump works, first there are two dimples, that create a vaccum, the premote oil filling inside the "transfer chamber".. the way this transfer chamber is designed, is as it turns, two offcentered gears work together, to form a cavity to transfer oil from one area to another. say a devider. But the smart way it does it, is by using gears, that automatically go from no space, that creates space, while sucking, then transports that oil, and then when the gear turns, it squish'es it out, or dumps it out on the other size, so in a way, it automatiically creates a vaccum, traps content "oil" moved it on the other side of a cavity, and then pressurizes it out.. the problem is when pressuring something out, you have to be very careful... because you should only "push or dump" it as you can squish it out... what happens is if you try to move to much oil, aka, transfer it out, of that transfer area, and you encounter restriction, you cause pressure. What honda did in the first gen pump was limit the exitt area of the pump, what this caused is excess pressure on the exaust side of the pump, basically trying to dump a 5 gallon barrel of oil through a straw in 2 seconds, sure it can be done, but ther'es alot of pressure in that straw, and like everything pressure makes a spray, aka contains oxigen. aka cavition. created from moving forces at a faster rate than liquid which creates a gas molecules.... "i'm not a scientist" but i undertstand myself. So basically what happened in the first gen pumps it was ok tilll a certain speed, after that when the motor rev'ed too high, there was also to much pressure being created on the exaust side, and caused foaming prematurely. on the later pump, they opened up the area, and incorporated a nice exit ramp. now in the first gen pump i modified the ramp, but you can still see the restriction, for testing purposes i grinded it into a triangle for ramp off purposes, but initially the dimple looked like the intake of the pump and had a sharp discharge, no ramp. basically oil was pressurized through a 1mm opening for the first 8 or 10 degree's of the pump rotation = VERY BAD.
2nd gen cured most of this, but there are some things that can still be improved. sorry i coudn't take a video of the pump turning toshow you more, but a good look at hte pics it can be easily identified. so it's not lost if you have a first gen pump, just grind it and machine it and can be made in a 2nd gen pump. but for the added time, just go buy one.
here's pics.. to help if you need further clarification let me know it's past midnight and i've got some big meetings to go to tommorow.. kidna tired. lates!
Note that there is no clarification on which pumps are used in which cars, there appears to be at least 4 varients thus far.
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MilanoChris said:
F20 pump is semmingly a bit of work to make it fit properly, they are trying modifying the OEM pumps and also increasing the oil supply to the top of the engine via a different route to see if it helps at all.
I'm sure a reliable fix will come apparent but with all these things alot of trial and error has to occur before something is 100% right
Peter Pan
I aint posting no more!
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Your safe upto 9k but after that
Its a known fact that obviously high revs will kill the engine, and majot cause is oil starvation Honda changing the design like others have said is admitting there is a problem if you ask me, at the end of the day they cant exactly say it was a cost cutting measure
but after that Its a known fact that obviously high revs will kill the engine, and majot cause is oil starvation Honda changing the design like others have said is admitting there is a problem if you ask me, at the end of the day they cant exactly say it was a cost cutting measure
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Tarticus said:Your safe upto 9k
Its a known fact that obviously high revs will kill the engine, and majot cause is oil starvation Honda changing the design like others have said is admitting there is a problem if you ask me, at the end of the day they cant exactly say it was a cost cutting measure
9k is too high Pete on the stock system aswell as running into potential rod issues!