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RRC inlet manifold+FD2 TB vs FD2 oil pump balancer shaft delete

Comparing dynos is a waste of time to be honest as the scaling and accuracy (as you can see) is completely different so you're always best comparing on the same dyno.
I stuck throughout my project to TDi's rollers so I could see the progression, you'd likely be around 248ish with those mods, 250ish+ with a 3" maybe on theirs. It's usually £30-50 for a dyno run so could always chuck it on Surrey's and see what it makes but not worth doing IMO unless you're getting a health check or they can browse over the tune.

21bhp peak is decent, it's the area under the curve across the whole rev range you should be more interested in. Be good to see the plot. Don't forget too that the FD2 pump doesn't need tuning so 214bhp on the first run included the "gains" of the pump already.
I felt "disappointed" at first after the cams as the gains weren't as much as I'd hoped but on the road it's completely different, the motor just revs out effortlessly and I found myself bashing the limiter a few times getting used to them. The setup you have now is the sweet spot before internal work has to be done to squeeze anything else out :)
 
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I will post all the graphs and more details tomorrow when I collect the car.

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yoan_kostov said:
I will post all the graphs and more details tomorrow when I collect the car.

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Click to expand...
I'd be much more comfortable with romain mapping the car personally. He still goes to Surrey rolling Road, I'd certainly want him to see what he can do with it.

I'd be interested to compare the graphs from Surrey and eurospec before and after.

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After 8k rpm the car starts to loose power. Ben said that he expected a bit higher peak figure and there is something restricting the car and the only thing that could be is the exhaust. He even suggested to take the car back when I can to take the exhaust off and do another run.
After driving the car I am not that bothered any more. The car runs very fine pulls good as well. I will still take it to a dyno run at Surrey rolling road. It's just 40 quid anyway.
71b992d8680132d1e6d6820775e9cb49.jpg


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yoan_kostov said:
After 8k rpm the car starts to loose power. Ben said that he expected a bit higher peak figure and there is something restricting the car and the only thing that could be is the exhaust. He even suggested to take the car back when I can to take the exhaust off and do another run.
After driving the car I am not that bothered any more. The car runs very fine pulls good as well. I will still take it to a dyno run at Surrey rolling road. It's just 40 quid anyway.
71b992d8680132d1e6d6820775e9cb49.jpg


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Click to expand...
Will it be romain running it up? I'd get him to monitor the afr and make sure he's happy with the mapping personally.

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Graphs look fine to me. Majority of K20’s dip in power close to the redline. Also the fuelling rich at vtec point isn’t anything to worry about.
Take it to Surrey rolling road for a comparison. But remember it’s not the same day, conditions etc so still take the results with a pinch of salt.


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Graph looks fine to me mate.

Mine's on a 3" and looks very similar, to get rid of the dip after 6k and flattening power band at the top the head needs porting and raising the CR.
It's where I'm up to now on my NA build and the cost is simply not worth it unless you're refreshing the whole block as the labour costs alone are a LOT.
 
Doesn't look that smooth to me, it should be more linear with less of a step at VTEC crossover. Suggests to me it's either been mapped poorly or the modifications don't suit the car.

Here's my FD2 at EFI showing before and after an exhaust change but run using the same map.

I personally look at the shape of the graph over numbers as it’s more telling of how good the map is, regardless of the dyno.

The reason why my graph looks a little on the lumpy side as the revs increase is because it's doing some weird stuff and detecting phantom knock higher in the rev range, still haven't got to the bottom of it. Before anyone blames the mapper, it does it on the OEM map as well. :)

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Could be a few reasons for the dip.
Imbalance in harmonics in the intake and/or exhaust at that particular engine rpm causing a drop.
Large step in cam angle between low and high cam. You try and make sure the vtc angle is roughly the same at cross over point to eliminate the ‘dip’. But depending on the set up it’s sometimes not possible.
This also applies to fuelling and ignition timing. If there’s large changes in rpm ranges it makes the map messy and you’re worse off on power. So that rich point on vtec cross over is where the injector duration stays the same, but there’s a brief period where on cross over it’s not drawing in as much air.
So make the cross over point higher you say? But at that point it could start to lose power on the low cam, then you’ll have that same dip anyway.
Basically on some set ups it’s unavoidable no matter how sh!t hot your mapper is. Most importantly in the higher rev range where you want all the power there is no issues and these small ‘dips’ in power aren’t that noticeable.


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Here's mine done by romain at Surrey. How does that compare to your graph at Surrey? Mines an ep3 with usual breathing mods and drives really nicely now.
1bd4c6005dfa7d59f9cd3b7e87b05600.jpg


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I've had mine mapped in various states of modification and graph looks normal. The dip will likely be from the intake / exhaust setup as only moving to a 3.5" intake and 3" exhaust flattened it out. Still dips slightly but before the 3" it was much more noticeable on the graph.

Wasn't noticeable when driving to be honest, the FN2's K20Z4 is very good for midrange so tends to be peaky, just a shame about the naff exhaust route killing a lot of top end..

20180307_081840.jpg
 
I don't have a 3" exhaust or intake, nor do I have an aftermarket manifold and no dip for me.
 
Chris. said:
I don't have a 3" exhaust or intake, nor do I have an aftermarket manifold and no dip for me.
Click to expand...

What you do have is an FD2 with the RRC manifold as standard and ported valve ports in the block. By default they put out 222hp.
 
mike.h said:
What you do have is an FD2 with the RRC manifold as standard and ported valve ports in the block. By default they put out 222hp.
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the graph I'm referring to run the RRC manifold, TB etc? I know the FD2 has better cams but I'm fairly certain that my DC5 didn't have the same dip.

Edit...

Numbers are a bit odd due to the dyno, but curve has no dip. That was Mugen intake, RBC, DC header and RM01A exhaust.

It was night and day better than the previous map, particularly off throttle. I won't mention who mapped it before but they've been mentioned in this thread a few times.

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https://type-r-owners.co.uk/forums/...rack-project&p=1336443&viewfull=1#post1336443
 
I went to SRR this morning. My car made 224 bhp so 9 less than last year with the first set of mods.
I drove straight to Eurospec and called Ben. Fair play to him left his house and came to see me. We put the car on their dyno the car made 208 could have gotten to 210 but was pointless. For two weeks the car become worse than before the map tweak.
First thing to do will be to put back the Tegiwa exhaust manifold to see if the issue is coming from the Toda flexis. They stuck a camera inside but can't see clearly. If it's not that....
I don't know.


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Toda off, Tegiwa on the car made 10bhp more. Ben will now map it again and see where we come at.
Does anybody know if the timing of the cam chain is off if I will get a check engine light on or if the system will recognise the issue?
Thanks

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