Loxy's Type R #5 - Milano Red FK2 GT
- Thread starter Loxy
- Start date
Scottish Type-R
TRO Supporter
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Sounds good Loxy. Like Mark said be interesting to hear it in the cabin. 
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- 83
Just seen this. Good increase in torque from the resonated cat back system
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Yeah that's a pop on the video that overwhelms my phone microphone! :lol:
It pops on overrun quite a bit. I'm hoping it starts to crackle a bit as it beds in.
It's got noticeably more shove over 3k, you really notice it in 6th on the motorway.
I'm going to give TDi a ring at some point and book it in to check the AFRs and see what it is pulling on the dyno.
It pops on overrun quite a bit. I'm hoping it starts to crackle a bit as it beds in.
It's got noticeably more shove over 3k, you really notice it in 6th on the motorway.
I'm going to give TDi a ring at some point and book it in to check the AFRs and see what it is pulling on the dyno.
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Long winded post alert.
Monday of this week saw me take the trip over to Sheffield to Cobra Sport to get one of their Resonated Cat-Back systems and Sport-Cat fitted. I had originally planned to get Grinspeed to fit it, but Cobra were straight in saying that it was the first customer delivered system since the test mule system was produced and they wanted to be 100% sure on fitment, particularly around the rear exhaust finisher pipes.
I arrived around 10am or just after and my car was soon up on the ramps.
While they were cracking on with the cat-back I was lucky enough to be given the factory tour. Very impressive that in this day and age, that the exhaust systems are actually made there, using British materials. Good to see so many young lads cutting their teeth working and learning a trade.
I was allowed to take pictures, but had to be careful of some things to make sure I wasn't giving away trade secrets. However I was shown the process and method on how despite the exhausts being welded by hand, that they will all be exactly the same. It's simple, effective but secret! It also makes sense that they make systems up as orders come in. It saves on having to hold stock of full systems and lets them offer the choice of systems they do.
Anyway, some pictures.
Making up some systems:
One of the mandrel benders in the workshop. This was only one, but the other one was much bigger and again I wasn't allowed a picture of it as it was the only one of its kind in the country. Top secret:
Looking down as the business end:
Customer orders ready to box:
An example of their electronic etching:
What I didn't understand with Cobra is that they do off the shelf systems that you can just buy, but if you book in with them and go down to them, they will make up a system to any specification you want. Very cool stuff.
I was kept informed and hydrated through the day and found myself settled in their waiting room.
Back to the car. I went for the Resonated system which has a small back box and centre resonator and is the quieter of their two off the shelf systems and is a true 3" system, along with their sports cat which is 4" from the turbo to 3" onto the cat-back.
The cat-back went on quickly and easily and fitted spot on with no need for any adjustments. Many smiles were exchanged and they agreed to crack on with the sports cat.
The sports-cat is where the fun started. I was told it would have been a 3 hour job, after 3 and a bit hours, Sean came through and gave me the news. :lol:
It turns out that Honda use very fine threaded stainless bolts to mount the down-pipe/cat to the turbo. They were very similar to Ford's bolts and Cobra have now stopped offering a fitting service on Ford down-pipes! You can see where this is going... :|
They said that two of the bolts when they started to back them off just locked after a couple of turns. The threads just cross and that is it, stuck fast. So, the only option is to drill out the turbo bolts and re-tap the turbo housing to fit new bolts on my £33k, 6,000 mile car. Deep breath, "Aye go on," was pretty much all I could muster. :lol:
It was what it was and they weren't going to go back in anyway.
Anyway a few hours later than expected and it fires into life and is backed outside, burbling and purring away. I had a quick look round it, and on the secondary O2 sensor I notice a lambda spacer. I hate those things with a passion, so mentioned it instantly. I was told that it was put on there as a just in case to avoid the EML coming on and also to allow the lambda sensor to fit. It turns out Honda put the secondary O2 sensor port right in the middle of their cat. Cobra have put the port at the bottom of the pipe, after the cat and this then means the lambda sensor wire isn't long enough to reach. Hmm, slight oversight there maybe.
Anyway, my old exhaust is loaded in the back of the car and away I go. My old exhaust had to be cut to fit in the back as it is too big as a single piece. Cobra, to their credit, welded some sleeves on it and supplied me with clamps, so the OEM exhaust will go back together and can be put back on the car. Winner!
On the drive home I couldn't really put the hammer down as the back is full of exhaust pipes and with the back seats down, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake because by Christ it sounded loud! Thankfully now I've done about 150 miles on it, it has started to quieten down to give a nice deep, jap sounding tone and it pops away on overrun. It sounds just pure evil how it roars when the turbo spools! In 6th gear at motorway cruising speeds the torque is markedly improved and it will charge on now like a demon.
Now the bad news, on the way home from work last night I casually glance down at the clocks to see an orange engine symbol looking back at me. Sh**, EML. I gave it some throttle in 6th where it had been pulling supremely before and it all seems a bit flat. So I've got EML and torque limited limp mode.
Not anything I could do last night, so this morning I bobbed over to Grinspeed and Stevie read the code. Secondary O2 sensor, lean condition detected. That explains the limp mode. Code cleared and everything is now back to how it was, but I'm under no illusions it will be back, if not tomorrow, then by Friday I'm sure. It will be the elbow lambda spacer that isn't getting any gas flow over the sensor. So I've ordered an OBDII reader and code clearer so I can do it myself.
This isn't a long term solution, I get that. I don't want to go down the mapping route yet as Hondata is around the corner in the coming months with their solution which I'm led to believe is live mapping via the OBDII port, exactly like Flashpro on the FN2/FD2/late S2000s. I don't want to be breaking the ECU open and screwing the warranty on that, when the proper solution is nearly with us. On the other hand, I've booked Croft and don't want to be doing a track day in limp mode with the car throwing in a load of fuel to compensate for a lean condition that doesn't exist.
I rang TDi-North and Rob said that they hadn't had any ETA on FK2 Flashpro, so I was out of luck on that. They would have non-elbow lambda spacers, but there isn't a solution to extend the lambda sensor wire so it would reach the port on the Cobra Sport-cat. It would have been a long shot trying that and I might have still got the EML from it, but it was worth exploring I thought.
So the only option seems to be to get the OEM cat put back on and I'm booked in with Grinspeed to get that swapped over.
Here I must sing Hendy's praises. I bought the system from Hendy and so my contract of sale is with them, and straight from the off on purchasing it and through the issues over the last couple of days, they have been absolutely superb. I absolutely would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone and I'll be buying from them again, definitely. It's when things go sideways that you find out how good a company are, and Hendy are well up there in my opinion.
http://www.hendyeshop.co.uk/
I was due to speak with the head of product development at Cobra today, but I think we kept missing each other. Maybe tomorrow will bring more developments on that, but either way, there's not much that can change. Cobra's site does state:
I'm not sure how long that has been on there but EML was asked about previously and on the day and along with the fitting of the lambda spacer it really wasn't expected, and absolutely not limp mode. The Sports Cat is also supposed to pass the MOT, which it might do from an emissions point of view but it won't pass with the EML on! :lol:
Still these things happen when new products come out and when you start modding new cars. The EML didn't come on until I had done over 100 miles, so it probably didn't come on during development for Cobra. I can completely understand how it has come to being.
Overall, I am very very happy with the system and very impressed with Cobra's setup. I'm sure it will still sound just as good with the OEM cat. :twisted:
Monday of this week saw me take the trip over to Sheffield to Cobra Sport to get one of their Resonated Cat-Back systems and Sport-Cat fitted. I had originally planned to get Grinspeed to fit it, but Cobra were straight in saying that it was the first customer delivered system since the test mule system was produced and they wanted to be 100% sure on fitment, particularly around the rear exhaust finisher pipes.
I arrived around 10am or just after and my car was soon up on the ramps.
While they were cracking on with the cat-back I was lucky enough to be given the factory tour. Very impressive that in this day and age, that the exhaust systems are actually made there, using British materials. Good to see so many young lads cutting their teeth working and learning a trade.
I was allowed to take pictures, but had to be careful of some things to make sure I wasn't giving away trade secrets. However I was shown the process and method on how despite the exhausts being welded by hand, that they will all be exactly the same. It's simple, effective but secret! It also makes sense that they make systems up as orders come in. It saves on having to hold stock of full systems and lets them offer the choice of systems they do.
Anyway, some pictures.
Making up some systems:
One of the mandrel benders in the workshop. This was only one, but the other one was much bigger and again I wasn't allowed a picture of it as it was the only one of its kind in the country. Top secret:
Looking down as the business end:
Customer orders ready to box:
An example of their electronic etching:
What I didn't understand with Cobra is that they do off the shelf systems that you can just buy, but if you book in with them and go down to them, they will make up a system to any specification you want. Very cool stuff.
I was kept informed and hydrated through the day and found myself settled in their waiting room.
Back to the car. I went for the Resonated system which has a small back box and centre resonator and is the quieter of their two off the shelf systems and is a true 3" system, along with their sports cat which is 4" from the turbo to 3" onto the cat-back.
The cat-back went on quickly and easily and fitted spot on with no need for any adjustments. Many smiles were exchanged and they agreed to crack on with the sports cat.
The sports-cat is where the fun started. I was told it would have been a 3 hour job, after 3 and a bit hours, Sean came through and gave me the news. :lol:
It turns out that Honda use very fine threaded stainless bolts to mount the down-pipe/cat to the turbo. They were very similar to Ford's bolts and Cobra have now stopped offering a fitting service on Ford down-pipes! You can see where this is going... :|
They said that two of the bolts when they started to back them off just locked after a couple of turns. The threads just cross and that is it, stuck fast. So, the only option is to drill out the turbo bolts and re-tap the turbo housing to fit new bolts on my £33k, 6,000 mile car. Deep breath, "Aye go on," was pretty much all I could muster. :lol:
It was what it was and they weren't going to go back in anyway.
Anyway a few hours later than expected and it fires into life and is backed outside, burbling and purring away. I had a quick look round it, and on the secondary O2 sensor I notice a lambda spacer. I hate those things with a passion, so mentioned it instantly. I was told that it was put on there as a just in case to avoid the EML coming on and also to allow the lambda sensor to fit. It turns out Honda put the secondary O2 sensor port right in the middle of their cat. Cobra have put the port at the bottom of the pipe, after the cat and this then means the lambda sensor wire isn't long enough to reach. Hmm, slight oversight there maybe.
Anyway, my old exhaust is loaded in the back of the car and away I go. My old exhaust had to be cut to fit in the back as it is too big as a single piece. Cobra, to their credit, welded some sleeves on it and supplied me with clamps, so the OEM exhaust will go back together and can be put back on the car. Winner!
On the drive home I couldn't really put the hammer down as the back is full of exhaust pipes and with the back seats down, I'm wondering if I've made a mistake because by Christ it sounded loud! Thankfully now I've done about 150 miles on it, it has started to quieten down to give a nice deep, jap sounding tone and it pops away on overrun. It sounds just pure evil how it roars when the turbo spools! In 6th gear at motorway cruising speeds the torque is markedly improved and it will charge on now like a demon.
Now the bad news, on the way home from work last night I casually glance down at the clocks to see an orange engine symbol looking back at me. Sh**, EML. I gave it some throttle in 6th where it had been pulling supremely before and it all seems a bit flat. So I've got EML and torque limited limp mode.
Not anything I could do last night, so this morning I bobbed over to Grinspeed and Stevie read the code. Secondary O2 sensor, lean condition detected. That explains the limp mode. Code cleared and everything is now back to how it was, but I'm under no illusions it will be back, if not tomorrow, then by Friday I'm sure. It will be the elbow lambda spacer that isn't getting any gas flow over the sensor. So I've ordered an OBDII reader and code clearer so I can do it myself.
This isn't a long term solution, I get that. I don't want to go down the mapping route yet as Hondata is around the corner in the coming months with their solution which I'm led to believe is live mapping via the OBDII port, exactly like Flashpro on the FN2/FD2/late S2000s. I don't want to be breaking the ECU open and screwing the warranty on that, when the proper solution is nearly with us. On the other hand, I've booked Croft and don't want to be doing a track day in limp mode with the car throwing in a load of fuel to compensate for a lean condition that doesn't exist.
I rang TDi-North and Rob said that they hadn't had any ETA on FK2 Flashpro, so I was out of luck on that. They would have non-elbow lambda spacers, but there isn't a solution to extend the lambda sensor wire so it would reach the port on the Cobra Sport-cat. It would have been a long shot trying that and I might have still got the EML from it, but it was worth exploring I thought.
So the only option seems to be to get the OEM cat put back on and I'm booked in with Grinspeed to get that swapped over.
Here I must sing Hendy's praises. I bought the system from Hendy and so my contract of sale is with them, and straight from the off on purchasing it and through the issues over the last couple of days, they have been absolutely superb. I absolutely would not hesitate to recommend them to anyone and I'll be buying from them again, definitely. It's when things go sideways that you find out how good a company are, and Hendy are well up there in my opinion.
http://www.hendyeshop.co.uk/
I was due to speak with the head of product development at Cobra today, but I think we kept missing each other. Maybe tomorrow will bring more developments on that, but either way, there's not much that can change. Cobra's site does state:
I'm not sure how long that has been on there but EML was asked about previously and on the day and along with the fitting of the lambda spacer it really wasn't expected, and absolutely not limp mode. The Sports Cat is also supposed to pass the MOT, which it might do from an emissions point of view but it won't pass with the EML on! :lol:
Still these things happen when new products come out and when you start modding new cars. The EML didn't come on until I had done over 100 miles, so it probably didn't come on during development for Cobra. I can completely understand how it has come to being.
Overall, I am very very happy with the system and very impressed with Cobra's setup. I'm sure it will still sound just as good with the OEM cat. :twisted:
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- 27
Thanks for the write up Loxy. Do they offer a fitting service to Joe Public? Ideal for me if they do...
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Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
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Yes. They did a Swift Sport, an MX-5 and a Gallardo while I was there.
Exactly. It's not going to be here from Croft as that would have been ideal, but it's definitely coming!
If taking the sports cat off reduces the torque substantially, I might be queuing up for it.
Yeah, I didn't expect any issues this time. I thought the FK2 would be different, but it does just seem that you can't mess with the cats on any Honda without needing remaps! :lol:
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I can understand that for a decat, obviously, but for a sports cat it's a bit of an alarming sidestep.
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I think they were and I'm not saying I didn't get a few messages beforehand pointing that out. They were very open about showing me round and very proud of the company that they are now. I was suitably reassured.
I think reading between the lines that they possibly did want to ask me back to try and work around it. However I don't want the sports cat enough to be that guy who drives 80 miles to Sheffield, for them to fettle and fit something else, to drive back home and get the EML again a day later, to have to then go back and rinse and repeat. I don't have the time or the inclination these days. I paid £500 plus for the part and it should fit IMHO, EML not withstanding.
I completely agree with you though. I'm thinking they maybe did the decat pipe which would have had an O2 spacer in there and the designed the sports cat from the same template.
Oh I know, it was completely unexpected, especially considering the O2 spacer. I've heard of Vaux and Ford turbos running sports cats on OEM maps without issue generally, that is unless the owners cover it up or don't mention it. I'm a warts and all kinda guy, especially when I've gone through something that didn't quite work so maybe someone else doesn't have to. :lol: