IPS K2's and ITB's make poor figures?...Please comment Ron

[tp]

Please enlighten us as to why a car equipped with K2 cams that normally would make around the 220@ wheels figure, even with the addition of TWM ITB's make such poor figures?

Maybe it is a tight engine?
Maybe its not.

It just doesnt tie up with what the rest of the world seems to be getting with these mods.

I wonder if its all American advertising hype? :? :? :?


EDIT.

THIS IS THE ORIGINAL POST ON ANOTHER THREAD THAT IS REFERED TO IN THIS POST. :wink:

Guy....

Can you let me know any more info on them, dosent say much on your website. Also with a set of 'aftermarket' cams what do you reckon power would be roughly knowing what my car has already??

In both the most recent K20 application and previous B series applications this conversion gives a solid 20 Wheel Horse Power improvement. Coupled with a good combination of Exhaust system and cams power is produced in excess of 9000rpm.

Notice the "Solid" 20bhp power improvement.

Now look at this:

This dyno graph was with the addition of IPS K2 camshafts. :!:
And I recall a certain race car with Toda A2's running about 200@wheels on the CPL dyno last year. (It was the one evilowl dug up the plots for where they tried the std vs ITR vs Toda A2 camshafts on a Motec ecu then went to CPL to try a Kpro)

Now look at this:

Its the actual IPS results measured at wheel of just the K2 camshafts with intake and exhaust.

And this was the screenshot of 2 identical cars one with Toda N2's and the other with IPS K2's on the same day on the System-R dyno before the software upgrade. Note that both made manufacturers quoted figures:

Today I saw a K2 installed car run a 220bhp@wheels with intake and exhaust on the now upgraded dyno at TDi.

I want ITB's, but by the evidence so far I will be holding out until I see considerably better results either from the same car on another dyno, 1/4 mile times (terminals more than et's :wink: ) or other cars.

Slightly off topic, what were the results from Stanwans running with the clockwise ITB's?
I saw the Nemesis cars results but they were quoting something daft like 22% wheel losses. :?

 

[The Keiser]

Re: IPS K2's and ITB's make poor figures...Please comment Ro

Please enlighten us as to why a car equipped with K2 cams that normally would make around the 220@ wheels figure, even with the addition of TWM ITB's make such poor figures?

Maybe it is a tight engine?
Maybe its not.

It just doesnt tie up with what the rest of the world seems to be getting with these mods.

I wonder if its all American advertising hype? :? :? :?

Very poor show TP. :evil:

 

[tp]

Re: IPS K2's and ITB's make poor figures...Please comment Ro

Very poor show TP. :evil:

Why?

I'd love to know why CPL cant match the figures the company he represents claim. :wink:
Would also like to hear what Ron thinks.

Of course it will all end up being a mud slinging operation against me being a Toda spy.....again :roll: :lol:

 

[Sara]

For fcuks sake Paul..............GROW UP

 

[tp]

For fcuks sake Paul..............GROW UP

Thankyou for those constructive comments! :roll:

Wouldnt you like to hear or have you already made your mind up?

 

[Peter Pan]

Personally I really do think he been drinking or seriously does have a problem.

Alot of people had said to me he had got a problem but to be honest in real life he seemed ok, but really think he lossing the plot........

ROFL at your sig as well, really shows how childish you are, ohh and I always told Guy that GAS is cheating he knows that, but when everyone else uses it, and spouts about there times and how fast there car is, cough TP cough TP then you got to use it just to keep up really

 

[edo]

TP, the simple fact is that Guy is consistent and strictly adheres to his testing methodology. My understanding is that he chose a particular DD "X" factor that is commonly used. If he wanted to produce numbers which are in line with our findings, all he would need to do is change it. To his credit, Guy does not. He uses the same correction factor as he always had from day one. We do not use DD primarily. To date, we've only laid down two baselines (no tuning) in an attempt to correlate data between Church's Dynapack, MD Automotive's Dynojet and lastly Autowave's DD. With the 2240cc motor making 303 on Shawn's Dynapack, it made 276 on MD's Dynojet and 270.9 on Autowave's DD.

Don't be concerned with the numbers, but rather the deltas and curves over an established baseline. Sometimes though, it isn't financially feasible for the end user to go through countless fitting/tune/retune sessions.

-Ron

 

[moNoKnoT]

Guy cheats..He uses gas..Tart.(140106)

:roll:

- Kevin.

 

[Peter Pan]

Guy cheats..He uses gas..Tart.(140106)

:roll:

- Kevin.

LOL I know how stupid does TP really want to make himself look, its only used for cooling as well but hell what do I know...................................................

 

[tp]

Guy cheats..He uses gas..Tart.(140106)

:roll:

- Kevin.

its only used for cooling as well but hell what do I know...................................................

And you beleive that. :lol:

If its fitted, you will use it. Hell most of the TOTB cars did and I didnt hear calls of cheat then? :roll:

 

[Peter Pan]

Lets just see what times you make this year then shall we. [Wink]

Why is there some competition that I dont know about happening if so who is putting up the prize money ??

I go out to beat one person and one person only, and from a personal / financial point of view (im trying to buy a house) I wont be doing that much drag racing this year, but im sure you will have some competition, so you can gro your massive ego a little bit more

 

[dotty]

Friendly chat guys come on. :roll:

 

[tp]

TP, the simple fact is that Guy is consistent and strictly adheres to his testing methodology. My understanding is that he chose a particular DD "X" factor that is commonly used. If he wanted to produce numbers which are in line with our findings, all he would need to do is change it. To his credit, Guy does not. He uses the same correction factor as he always had from day one. We do not use DD primarily. To date, we've only laid down two baselines (no tuning) in an attempt to correlate data between Church's Dynapack, MD Automotive's Dynojet and lastly Autowave's DD. With the 2240cc motor making 303 on Shawn's Dynapack, it made 276 on MD's Dynojet and 270.9 on Autowave's DD.

Don't be concerned with the numbers, but rather the deltas and curves over an established baseline. Sometimes though, it isn't financially feasible for the end user to go through countless fitting/tune/retune sessions.

-Ron

Thankyou for posting Ron. 8)
Now could you please put up some @ wheel figures of 2L K2 cars with ITB's rather than 2.2's which would be of slightly more relevance. :wink:

 

[The Keiser]

For fcuks sake Paul..............GROW UP

Thankyou for those constructive comments! :roll:

Wouldnt you like to hear or have you already made your mind up?

It's actually very constructive when directed at you :wink:

You obviously have a vendetta aimed at Guy personally but a public forum where both his customers & others are present is not the place to try & bring him down by nasty comments, remarks and misguided claims, this is his livelihood and you behaving in this manor is both unprofessional & degrading.

As soon as I joined both forums, I was aware of this "sadly", if you have a gripe with Guy, talk to him about it, or keep it for the tarmac

 

[edo]

Don't you think I would've posted them if I had 2.0L/ITB/K2 data? That's not really the pertinent issue at hand. Your contention is with Guy's DD and seeking to understand why it is. The information I posted should help despite the different displacement as it illustrates quite poignantly how the 3 dynos measure power for the same vehicle/engine setup. Beyond that, there's nothing else I can contribute at this time.

-Ron

 

[The Keiser]

Don't you think I would've posted them if I had 2.0L/ITB/K2 data? That's not really the pertinent issue at hand. Your contention is with Guy's DD and seeking to understand why it is. The information I posted should help despite the different displacement as it illustrates quite poignantly how the 3 dynos measure power for the same vehicle/engine setup. Beyond that, there's nothing else I can contribute at this time.

-Ron

Ron,

I wouldn't concern your self too much with TP's comments or indeed this thread. It is my car & would say that I have never felt as comfortable leaving any of my cars with any given tuner as I have Guy. Every time I have tuned to any great extent I have been hands on in what products I wanted & the set up magde, where this time around I have said to Guy what my plans were & left him the car. I am absolutely comfortable with Guy's abiliuty & knowledge and feel it's ashmae that TP continues to insult Guy publically instead of speaking to him a side from hiding behind the keyboard.

I am chuffed to bit's having my IPS cams & ITB's fitted and can't wait to get this staretd tomorrow or Monday

Even the thread title is a tad undermining to both Guy & my self given the fact he does not have anything to substanciate his claim :roll:

 

[tp]

Keiser you have a pm.

Ron thanks for posting.
Its not meant as a dig at Guy just trying to figure out why the results are so much lower than would be expected.

 

[G]

Interesting thread this, I can see how it has stirred up many emotions. I feel there are a few things of note here however. I do not see (unless my admin collegues have moved posts) where he actually insulted anyone personaly. I also do not see the issue with questioning tuning and the performance claims of adding parts whoever they may be made by or indeed fitted by.

There seems to be an increasing amount of, to me at any rate, blind faith by people in manufacturers claims of instant gains just by bolting on this part or that.

As customers we invest hard earned cash, time and effort into our tuning, and we take the risks on board for, lets face it, that all important feel good factor of having a car faster than our mates, or that makes us feel exilerated.

So I for one see no problem in questioning, as long as it is done in the right way, anyones claims. After all if we fit a charger, turbo or cams ...or any bolt on goodies to our motors if it goes wrong it is us who has to pay.

Likewise if the performance on the street or track does not live up to expectations, then why should we not want clarification as to why? After all this is the only way we can assure that standards are kept up.

Any manufacturer or tuner should have the confidence and faith in its product to be able to stand any critisism as long as it well put and constructed. After all why bother having a forum at all if we are unable to discuss these issues? I for one come here for the information gathered in one place, and am more prepared to listen to my fellow forum members and what their reall world experiences are, rather than any claimed figures.

I often wonder for example why we (in the UK) seem so far behind the likes of the USA, Japan, Australia and even New Zealand when it comes to what I consider street tuning? Especially when you consider as far as motorsport at least we have some of the best people in the world, and many of the top teams in many different classes of motorsport are based here (in fact next door to me practicaly, Prodrive, Williams, Renault, Owen Developments so on). yet if you want your B16 tuned many folks pay to fly an American over???? Go figure?

What am I saying, oh I dunno except IMHO we all to often look at a magazine advert, see a nice shinny widget and bolt it on just because it looks purty, all to often without really looking into the whole aspect of tuning and setting up an engine, chassis whatever. Of course I am aware that not everyone can afford building an engine bottom up. And TBH there are very few in the country I would trust with a Honda engine at least. Though this also goes for other marques as well.

I am not trying to single anyone or indeed any company out here of course. And please feel free to argue the points. As long as it is rational then we will all benefit.

 

[moNoKnoT]

I do not see (unless my admin collegues have moved posts) where he actually insulted anyone personaly.

The post were removed by dotty in this thread: http://type-r-owners.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2748

- Kevin.

 

[tp]

I do not see (unless my admin collegues have moved posts) where he actually insulted anyone personaly.

The post were removed by dotty in this thread: http://type-r-owners.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2748

- Kevin.

IIRC the insults were actually directed at me because I dare to post facts that are deemed as controversial.
As I stated before I want ITBÂ’s as much as the next person but from the evidence seen so far it just seems not worth it hence starting this thread to try and get Ron or Guy to comment. Did know one notice the total absence of these two people throughout all the other posts on this and the threads from keiser on the other forum? This certainly isnÂ’t the normal situation when anything IPS related is posted.
I asked for RonÂ’s comments in the thread title and he gave them in a roundabout way giving 3 examples of the same car on 3 different dynoÂ’sÂ…not a 2L as hoped but he went on to explain why. Ron also goes on to explain that CPL do things their own way.

I just wish people would stop jumping on the bandwagon whenever I post something that provokes people to actually use their own minds to make up what they see rather than just believing information presented to them on a plate.