K20 FTW.. Essentially, more JDM than a Tsunami
- Thread starter TarmacNymph
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Thanks for the comments guys, I will post a proper reply plus my results etc. soon (later today hopefully). 
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Right, well I didn't want to post until I had had a drive that wasn't motorway jaunting as that wouldn't have been a "fair" description of how the car drives now. And, to be fair, even though I went out for around 2-3 hours yesterday, it probably still won't be as accurate as it could be; yet I will obviously report back once I've got a few more hours under my belt as it were.
First thing, videos of the event. I know Dotty has already posted one up but these are the better ones of the day that I took.
Mase working his magic:
[video=youtube;m7KKKJwMgGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KKKJwMgGY[/video]
A rear shot, to get a better idea of the noise. And yes there was lots of it!!
[video=youtube;k_Lgp2mcJww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Lgp2mcJww[/video]
And another rear shot, but with flames y0! Made me smile like a schoolgirl anyway :lol:
[video=youtube;VVl_cNLxKEE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVl_cNLxKEE[/video]
Now, for the results of Mase's hard work. I discussed with him prior that I wanted to be able to offer a comparison between my original map and his, so he conducted 6 base runs to show this, which can be seen as the green line. Each of these base runs were pretty much spot on, ranging from just above 196 to 198 bhp at the wheels. Romain's map gave me 197.7 at the wheels. The graph:
As can be seen, there is a distinct difference! Yet I would like to point out now, before the whole "told you so/ haters" game starts (lol), that at no point was I unhappy with Romain's map, nor did I believe the so called Mase hype. I went in to this with an open mind out of complete curiosity; Romain is an exceptionally talented mapper regardless, yet Mase doesn't just walk the walk, the hype has backing.
So, how do the two compare? What is it like to drive?
In terms of the comparitive on paper, the dyno print out does the talking, an increase in power throughout, with as much as 20bhp in places; and an overall increase of 16bhp at the wheels at peak. What you may also notice, is the quite considerable increase before vtec engages (and the subsequent flatline); more on this later.
Fuel consumption wise, Romain's map was better on fuel in vtec, yet more power equates more fuel; not suprised. Motorway hauling, much of a muchness in all honesty.
Now after a bit of a late night drive yesterday, just running through the gears, accelerating from a standstill, 3rd and 4th gear pulls etc, I have the following to report...
The additional power is noticeable, and the revs eat their way to redline quicker than before; which strangely, has changed the pitch of the exhaust (but don't worry, it's still hellastupid). The power delivery is smoother (as Dotty has mentioned in his own thread), which makes the car completely different to drive. Yet I think that this smoothness is more beneficial in first and second. As the peak just before vtec has made acceleration much less brutal than Romain's map, which, if I'm honest, I rather enjoyed. It felt a bit manic when vtec engaged, and to a point, felt "faster" in terms of being ruthless, which was fun. Mase's map has removed this aspect of the car, but given it a new perspective, as it is easier to put the power down from a standing start, which can only be a good thing; yet, as mentioned, the brutality will be missed from a "woah" point of view.
In regards to the flatline before vtec, Mase talked me through this and basically said that a 70mm pipe is probably too large with the current modifications, and drops due to losing backpressure. Yet he said that a decent set of camshafts will rectify this and better utilise the 70RR to its full potential. He also suggested some internal workings on the engine, but said I should shy away from ITB's as they'll take away the normal driveability of the car. Disappointing to an extent, but knowledge is power and this knowledge saves a potential £4k+ which can be spent elsewhere. I will remian NA for sure though.
Overall thoughts? Currently I have a mixed reaction but I am very happy with what Mase has achieved. The only downside for me is the loss of the vtec brutality, but I'm positive that once I get used to the car not spinning up in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd I'll appreciate the change much more, and thus be even happier with the new tune. This mild issue does not affect me whilst pulling whilst already in motion, as the pick up is great! Thank you Mase, you're obviously very talented at what you do and is very placid and pleasant to talk to. I shall report back once I've driven her more and got a better idea of what the changes equate to in the real world.
Oh, and finally, seeing as SRR don't have the ability to work out a bhp figure at the fly, I have worked one out for myself. Seeing as Eurospec and SRR both have Dyno Dynamics machines, and in the interests of fairness (from my own point of view, and that of not being able to source a concrete conversion rate) I have used my Eurospec figures to equate the following:
Romain - 197.7 whp, 236bhp
Thus, 197.7 over X equals 236, meaning X = 0.84
Therefore, 213.7 / 0.84 = 254.4bhp.
Thanks for reading.
First thing, videos of the event. I know Dotty has already posted one up but these are the better ones of the day that I took.
Mase working his magic:
[video=youtube;m7KKKJwMgGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7KKKJwMgGY[/video]
A rear shot, to get a better idea of the noise. And yes there was lots of it!!
[video=youtube;k_Lgp2mcJww]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Lgp2mcJww[/video]
And another rear shot, but with flames y0! Made me smile like a schoolgirl anyway :lol:
[video=youtube;VVl_cNLxKEE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVl_cNLxKEE[/video]
Now, for the results of Mase's hard work. I discussed with him prior that I wanted to be able to offer a comparison between my original map and his, so he conducted 6 base runs to show this, which can be seen as the green line. Each of these base runs were pretty much spot on, ranging from just above 196 to 198 bhp at the wheels. Romain's map gave me 197.7 at the wheels. The graph:
As can be seen, there is a distinct difference! Yet I would like to point out now, before the whole "told you so/ haters" game starts (lol), that at no point was I unhappy with Romain's map, nor did I believe the so called Mase hype. I went in to this with an open mind out of complete curiosity; Romain is an exceptionally talented mapper regardless, yet Mase doesn't just walk the walk, the hype has backing.
So, how do the two compare? What is it like to drive?
In terms of the comparitive on paper, the dyno print out does the talking, an increase in power throughout, with as much as 20bhp in places; and an overall increase of 16bhp at the wheels at peak. What you may also notice, is the quite considerable increase before vtec engages (and the subsequent flatline); more on this later.
Fuel consumption wise, Romain's map was better on fuel in vtec, yet more power equates more fuel; not suprised. Motorway hauling, much of a muchness in all honesty.
Now after a bit of a late night drive yesterday, just running through the gears, accelerating from a standstill, 3rd and 4th gear pulls etc, I have the following to report...
The additional power is noticeable, and the revs eat their way to redline quicker than before; which strangely, has changed the pitch of the exhaust (but don't worry, it's still hellastupid). The power delivery is smoother (as Dotty has mentioned in his own thread), which makes the car completely different to drive. Yet I think that this smoothness is more beneficial in first and second. As the peak just before vtec has made acceleration much less brutal than Romain's map, which, if I'm honest, I rather enjoyed. It felt a bit manic when vtec engaged, and to a point, felt "faster" in terms of being ruthless, which was fun. Mase's map has removed this aspect of the car, but given it a new perspective, as it is easier to put the power down from a standing start, which can only be a good thing; yet, as mentioned, the brutality will be missed from a "woah" point of view.
In regards to the flatline before vtec, Mase talked me through this and basically said that a 70mm pipe is probably too large with the current modifications, and drops due to losing backpressure. Yet he said that a decent set of camshafts will rectify this and better utilise the 70RR to its full potential. He also suggested some internal workings on the engine, but said I should shy away from ITB's as they'll take away the normal driveability of the car. Disappointing to an extent, but knowledge is power and this knowledge saves a potential £4k+ which can be spent elsewhere. I will remian NA for sure though.
Overall thoughts? Currently I have a mixed reaction but I am very happy with what Mase has achieved. The only downside for me is the loss of the vtec brutality, but I'm positive that once I get used to the car not spinning up in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd I'll appreciate the change much more, and thus be even happier with the new tune. This mild issue does not affect me whilst pulling whilst already in motion, as the pick up is great! Thank you Mase, you're obviously very talented at what you do and is very placid and pleasant to talk to. I shall report back once I've driven her more and got a better idea of what the changes equate to in the real world.
Oh, and finally, seeing as SRR don't have the ability to work out a bhp figure at the fly, I have worked one out for myself. Seeing as Eurospec and SRR both have Dyno Dynamics machines, and in the interests of fairness (from my own point of view, and that of not being able to source a concrete conversion rate) I have used my Eurospec figures to equate the following:
Romain - 197.7 whp, 236bhp
Thus, 197.7 over X equals 236, meaning X = 0.84
Therefore, 213.7 / 0.84 = 254.4bhp.
Thanks for reading.
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Great write up!
I don't know whether it works for mine as well but using your equation and figures my car made 185.1bhp @ the wheels, so that equates to 220.3bhp @ the flywheel! Is that possible for standard ctr with just a Tegiwa intake?!
Also my mates standard fn2 will have made 214.2 @ the flywheel using the same equation again?!?!
I don't know whether it works for mine as well but using your equation and figures my car made 185.1bhp @ the wheels, so that equates to 220.3bhp @ the flywheel! Is that possible for standard ctr with just a Tegiwa intake?!
Also my mates standard fn2 will have made 214.2 @ the flywheel using the same equation again?!?!
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I love this car! It Nearly made my ears bleed yesterday
Stuff like this just makes me smile. I know it's ridiculous, but I just can't help but grin like a cheshire cat. :lol:
I wouldn't know mate, it's supposed to be a percentage of engine output versus resistance on the rollers etc (I think), as I wouldn't have said a standard car would pull those figures, no. I was just using that equation as a comparison between the two maps on virtually the same machines for my car. Whether that'd be accurate for everyone I wouldn't know.
Glad you're happy with the results Carl
MASE FTW.
Cheers Nick, glad you (and others) approve.
Great little write up Karl, sounds like Mase has worked his magic again and got you some extra ponies which can never be a bad thing. Glad you're happy with it mate can't wait to see what comes next
Thanks Darren, I'm happy with the write up, wanted to make it an interesting read and a reference point if anything. Instead of "yeah mate Mase is sik" :lol: !!
In terms of what's next, MOT and service in February! haha! Nothing planned yet, in regards to something being in motion, but watch this space...
SpaceMonkey
Midget Wannabe
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You fcuking nutter! You're putting all that GO onto the road now rather than spinning it away. I say it's a very good thing.
Shame I didn't get to hear it on the rollers, but it certainly looks very nice
